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  1. #1
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    Hmm....what's black's plan?

    Hi everyone, I had some very entertaining games at the NSW Open last week. In one game in particular, though I won it, I would like to look at one position from it which I absolutely didn't know what to do. In this game, I was very happy with how I handled the opening, but at this point I didn't know how to continue.

    What should black's plan be here? What is the strongest plan?

    FEN Viewer

    P.S. If you saw my game in the NSW open thread, you would have seen that I blundered here because of a very dubious move.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwischenzug
    should black's plan be here? What is the strongest plan?
    Calculate to mate! But I ought be essaying so I'll just say- Bxg4 looks good. E.g. fantasy line 1...Bxg4 2.fxg4 Nxe4 3.Qd3 Nec3+ 4.bxc3 Nxc3+ 5.Kc2 Qxa2+! 6.Nxa2 Rxa2+ 7.Kc1 Bb2+ 8.Kc2 Ba3 mate!? I'm not checking this on a board so apologies if I have put an illegal move in or something

    edit-OK so Bb2+ was the illegal move
    Last edited by Aaron Guthrie; 14-06-2007 at 12:42 PM.

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    Calculate to mate! But I ought be essaying so I'll just say- Bxg4 looks good. E.g. fantasy line 1...Bxg4 2.fxg4 Nxe4 3.Qd3 Nec3+ 4.bxc3 Nxc3+ 5.Kc2 Qxa2+! 6.Nxa2 Rxa2+ 7.Kc1 Bb2+ 8.Kc2 Ba3 mate!? I'm not checking this on a board so apologies if I have put an illegal move in or something

    edit-OK so Bb2+ was the illegal move
    Instead of 4. ... Nxc3, how about 4. ... Na3+ 5. Ka1 Bxc3 winning the queen.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Instead of 4. ... Nxc3, how about 4. ... Na3+ 5. Ka1 Bxc3 winning the queen.
    Or even 5...bxc3? I guess White interposes on d4 and so its not as strong.
    Last edited by Aaron Guthrie; 14-06-2007 at 01:35 PM.

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    Or even 5...bxc3? I guess White interposes on d4 and so its not as strong.
    Huh I dont understand, please clarify or re check

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Huh I dont understand, please clarify or re check
    I was referring to my own suggestion, so if 5..bxc3 then 6.Bd4.

    But then again maybe something like 6...ed4 and what does white do? 7.Rh2 Nxc4 8.Qxc4 d3 looks mighty strong.

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    After 1...Bxg4 white has 2.Bxb5 instead of 2.fxg4

    I prefer 2.Bxb5 because it removes one of the attacking pieces near White's castled king, plus White's white-squared bishop is a "bad" bishop. Not sure if it holds up tactically though.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty
    After 1...Bxg4 white has 2.Bxb5 instead of 2.fxg4

    I prefer 2.Bxb5 because it removes one of the attacking pieces near White's castled king, plus White's white-squared bishop is a "bad" bishop. Not sure if it holds up tactically though.
    Details details, I did call it a fantasy line after all

    I agree its a better move, after 2.Bxb5 black can try Bxf3, getting 3 pawns for the piece, or 2 pawns and a rook for 2 pieces, but neither looks anywhere near as promising as the attack he has after fxg4.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    Details details, I did call it a fantasy line after all

    I agree its a better move, after 2.Bxb5 black can try Bxf3, getting 3 pawns for the piece, or 2 pawns and a rook for 2 pieces, but neither looks anywhere near as promising as the attack he has after fxg4.
    1...Bxg4 does look good to me (even after 2.Bxb5 Bxf3). Most important, I don't see a decent alternative as the attack on quenside would be very slow without this tactical resource.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_Goldenberg
    1...Bxg4 does look good to me (even after 2.Bxb5 Bxf3). Most important, I don't see a decent alternative as the attack on quenside would be very slow without this tactical resource.
    Taking another look at it the option of getting the three pawns looks and it looks very strong, e.g. 2.Bxb5 Bxf3 3.Bd3 Bxe4 (intending c4 or Bxd5) and now if 4.Bxe4 Nxe4 5.Qc2 f5 and it looks like c4 can be prepared quickly and will be strong, and aside from that all the pieces are aiming right at the king. And if 4.Qc2 then Bxd5 looks strong and grabs material.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    Calculate to mate! But I ought be essaying so I'll just say- Bxg4 looks good. E.g. fantasy line 1...Bxg4 2.fxg4 Nxe4 3.Qd3 Nec3+ 4.bxc3 Nxc3+ 5.Kc2 Qxa2+! 6.Nxa2 Rxa2+ 7.Kc1 Bb2+ 8.Kc2 Ba3 mate!? I'm not checking this on a board so apologies if I have put an illegal move in or something

    edit-OK so Bb2+ was the illegal move
    I agree totally..Bxg4 looks very strong!
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  12. #12
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    Bruce, I would love to comment, but rather, I confess that after staring at the board in conjuction with Bruce's fantasy line, I couldn't work out how:
    a) black could take anything on g4 because his own knight occupied the square, and
    b) his bishops couldn't take anything anyway, except a lowly pawn way over on b5

    and then the penny dropped. I'm leaving now
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  13. #13
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    After 1...Bxg4!?, 2.fxg4 looks better to me than 2.Bxb5, eg 2.fxg4 Nxe4 3.Qd3 Nec3+ 4.Kc2 Nxd1 and white has B+N for R+2P. Sure black has the h-file but I don't think White is by any means smashed here.

    Given that White will always be tied to the h-file, 1...h5 to put a sock in White's kingside attack for a while without sacrificing anything in the process (I consider giving up two pieces for R+2P to be a sacrifice ) deserves consideration. I'm not sure it shuts white up long-term though. Maybe ...Bxg4 really is best.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    After 1...Bxg4!?, 2.fxg4 looks better to me than 2.Bxb5, eg 2.fxg4 Nxe4 3.Qd3 Nec3+ 4.Kc2 Nxd1 and white has B+N for R+2P. Sure black has the h-file but I don't think White is by any means smashed here.

    Given that White will always be tied to the h-file, 1...h5 to put a sock in White's kingside attack for a while without sacrificing anything in the process (I consider giving up two pieces for R+2P to be a sacrifice ) deserves consideration. I'm not sure it shuts white up long-term though. Maybe ...Bxg4 really is best.
    Btw the reason I chose Qd3 was because it allowed my (illegal) fantasy mate. 4.Kc2!? maybe 4...Na3+ 5.ba3 Qa3 with Nxa2 coming looks strong. Or maybe not- 6.Rd2! and I dont see a killer (Qb2 and Qa2 dont work )
    Last edited by Aaron Guthrie; 14-06-2007 at 09:41 PM.

  15. #15
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    Can I ruin this with some computer analysis now?

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