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Thread: The Bxh7 Thread

  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    OK thanks for your contributions so far. How about this for a proposition? White plays Bxh7+ and loses or draws (with best play for both sides)? Ha!

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    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  2. #32
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    same position?
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  3. #33
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    same position?
    Same position. But not "Should white play it?", but "Would you believe he's stuffed if he does! "?
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Same position. But not "Should white play it?", but "Would you believe he's stuffed if he does! "?
    No, I wouldn't.

  5. #35
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    OK thanks for your contributions so far. How about this for a proposition? White plays Bxh7+ and loses or draws (with best play for both sides)? Ha!
    Righto, enough of this little game. I hereby give 24 hrs notice of my intention to post computer-assisted analysis tomorrow night, possibly sometime between the Dawkins thingy and the Monaco Grand Prix.

  6. #36
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Last edited by Basil; 26-05-2007 at 10:13 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  7. #37
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    So are we free to post comp analysis then?

    Also I encourage Gunner to post his reasons for thinking that Bxh7+ is possibly even bad.

  8. #38
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    If White has a guaranteed draw as you suggest Howard, then that might be justification enough to take on h7.
    meep meep

  9. #39
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    So are we free to post comp analysis then?
    Yes, post away. We're all friends here! (Thanks for checking)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    Also I encourage Gunner to post his reasons for thinking that Bxh7+ is possibly even bad.
    I will not be encouraged!

    OK, the real answer(s) is/ are
    1. The reasons why Bxh7 could be trappy are too numerous; suffice to say the onus is one white to actually prove something on account of being a bishop down.
    2. It is clear already that some variations lose.
    3. I don't have the full analysis (due to its complexity), but would welcome seeing (and assessing) the best of the rest!
    4. I say again (officially here for the first time) that the position is much much much harder than at at first blush - which has been worthwhile in its own right, I hope.
    5. I hope to illustrate that the slightest error from white is curtains against strong play.
    6. Not doing so has kept Kevin mildy disgruntled for at least 24 hours already
    7. Re: Tactical opportunities: If black finds Kh6 quickly and strongish players would, then it is at least white who has the majority thinking to do - big time!
    Last edited by Basil; 27-05-2007 at 12:52 AM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  10. #40
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    If White has a guaranteed draw as you suggest Howard, then that might be justification enough to take on h7.
    Surely not if white is foregoing an otherwise superior position such as the simple Ng5? (All other things being equal, viz player sttrength, time, both sides playing for a genuine win etc.)
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Surely not if white is foregoing an otherwise superior position such as the simple Ng5? (All other things being equal, viz player sttrength, time, both sides playing for a genuine win etc.)
    I can't see a clear win coming from Ng5. All things being equal, the player with his king on h6 usually loses
    meep meep

  12. #42
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    I can't see a clear win coming from Ng5.
    I believe that you can't. I can't either. But it might be objectively best, taking a good position and making it better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    All things being equal, the player with his king on h6 usually loses
    But we're talking about this position. It's only the other factors being equal, not the moves. Do you care to put your nug ... I mean make an assessment of the position like the other good fellows, including myself [we all said take ... take ... take ...] (prior to computer assessment)?
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Yes, post away. We're all friends here! (Thanks for checking)
    Here is some analysis, not complete at all, and not with clear evaluations from me.

    1. Bxh7+ Kxh7 2. Ng5+ Kh6 3.Ndf3 Qd7 (3...Qe8!?) 4.Qc2

    A) 4...g6 5.h5 Kg7 6.Nxf7!? [6.hg6 Rh8 7.Rh7+ Rxh7 8.gh7 b5 9.Qh2 Bxg5 10.Nxg5 b4- and it is not clear to me white can actually break through][6.g4!?] 6...gh5 7.Nfg5 Rh8 8.g4-With strong attack

    B) 4.Nh2 g6 [4...f5 5.ef6 gf6 6.Ng4+ Kg7 7.Nxe6+ Kh8 8.Nxf8 Rxf8 9.Ne3 looks good to me] 5.h5 Bxg5+!? [5...Kg7 6.Nxf7!?] 6.fg5+ Kg7

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    1. The reasons why Bxh7 could be trappy are too numerous; suffice to say the onus is one white to actually prove something on account of being a bishop down.
    My attitude is that Black has to prove that he can allow a sacrifice by me! (i.e. I am a bishop down, so my opponent has to prove he can allow that )
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    2. It is clear already that some variations lose.
    For Black! But really I see quite a few interesting lines, I don't see a lot to be scared of from Whites point of view.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    4. I say again (officially here for the first time) that the position is much much much harder than at at first blush - which has been worthwhile in its own right, I hope.
    Yep there is more to it than is obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    5. I hope to illustrate that the slightest error from white is curtains against strong play.
    And if White plays all the right moves, Black can make the slightest error and it won't be curtains?
    Last edited by Aaron Guthrie; 26-05-2007 at 11:00 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    But we're talking about this position. It's only the other factors being equal, not the moves.
    yep, and that taken into account, the side with a mating attack having made a modest material investment would usually win.
    Do you care to put your nug ... I mean make an assessment of the position like the other good fellows, including myself [we all said take ... take ... take ...] (prior to computer assessment)?
    1.Bxh7 Kxh7 (1...Kh8 2.Ng5 g6 (else 3.Qh5) 3.h5 looks crushing) 2.Ng5+ Kh6 3.Nf1 going to Nf1-e3-g4 looks quite pleasant for White. Perhaps if you put Rybka on it for a few hours it will find a defense, but I would risk losing OTB with a sac like this.

    or

    1. Ng5 h6 2.Qh5 Qd7 and I'm thinking White will have to sac here to open lines sooner or later anyway.
    meep meep

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Manager
    Here is some analysis, not complete at all, and not with clear evaluations from me.
    Thanks mate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Manager
    A) With strong attack
    I'll check it. Nothing worse than a strong attack that loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Manager
    B)My attitude is that Black has to prove that he can allow a sacrifice by me!
    Au contraire, mon highly rated ami. It is black who is saying 'bring it on sucka ... looks tasty doesn't it .... yummo ... see who burps first

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Manager
    And if White plays all the right moves, Black can make the slightest error and it won't be curtains?
    For sure. Tricky as hell for both. However in the spirit of the proposition (white having all the goodies), it's white (remember it's from my own game with white) whom I want to test.
    Last edited by Basil; 26-05-2007 at 11:17 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

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