Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    4,437

    Frightfully simple SwissPerfect question

    Hi all,

    I'm embarassed to have to ask this question, but as I have never done an arbiting training course and know only a moderate amount about SwissPerfect I thought I should double-check things.

    We've just completed a tournament at Croydon. There were two instances where a player did not turn up to play their scheduled game:

    Case#1: a player rang our d.o.p. just before the round started to advise that they were sick. this explanation was accepted as genuine. because of the lateness of the notification, the d.o.p. decided that his opponent who DID turn up should get a full point, whereas the sick player should not receive a point for that round.

    Case #2: a player simply "didn't turn up" for their final round game, with no notification to the d.o.p. at all. his opponent, who DID turn up and who had White, played 1.c4 and started the clock. player who didn't turn up lost on time.

    Assuming that in both cases we want to award a full point to the player who did turn up, and no points to the player who didn't turn up ... what is the correct method for recording this in Swiss Perfect?

    Should it be 1-0, or +/-? Is it the same in both cases, or is the second case more eggregious and therefore is treated differently?
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    4,437
    Further information ... as currently coded in the SP file:

    Case #1: we ended up giving the player who turned up a 1-point BYE, and the player who was unwell but who reported this late a 0-point BYE

    Case #2: is currently recorded as +/- but I was thinking maybe it ought to be 1-0 instead
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

  3. #3
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Wynyard,Tas
    Posts
    2,424
    I would say +/- in both cases. They are both forfeits, the particular circumstances, while different, don't change that.

    Edit: For pairing purposes, recording as 1 and 0-point byes has the same effect as +/-.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,539
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout
    Edit: For pairing purposes, recording as 1 and 0-point byes has the same effect as +/-.
    Not sure. In case of +/- players can be paired again.
    For private coaching (IM, four times VIC champion) call or SMS 0417519733
    Computer tells you what to play. Good coach explains why.

  5. #5
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    17,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_Goldenberg
    Not sure. In case of +/- players can be paired again.
    True but pairing them as 1 and 0 point byes would also allow them to be paired again in a later round since as byes they are not shown as being paired together originally.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  6. #6
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    17,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout
    I would say +/- in both cases. They are both forfeits, the particular circumstances, while different, don't change that.
    I agree.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  7. #7
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Blayney
    Posts
    780
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    True but pairing them as 1 and 0 point byes would also allow them to be paired again in a later round since as byes they are not shown as being paired together originally.
    Would it be OK for them to paired to meet again in a later round, as by the game being unplayed, they wouldn't have met yet?
    B1 Two players shall not meet more than once.
    Get into chess, its a lifetime of enjoyment!
    Blayney Chess Club is online
    http://blayneychessclub.com

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,310
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
    Would it be OK for them to paired to meet again in a later round, as by the game being unplayed, they wouldn't have met yet?
    B1 Two players shall not meet more than once.
    F.2
    Byes, and pairing not actually played, or lost by one of the players due to arriving late or not at all, will not be taken into account with respect to colour, Such a pairing is not considered to be illegal in future rounds.

  9. #9
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Blayney
    Posts
    780
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    F.2
    Byes, and pairing not actually played, or lost by one of the players due to arriving late or not at all, will not be taken into account with respect to colour, Such a pairing is not considered to be illegal in future rounds.
    Thanks GG. Who would have thought there would be anything relevant in "Final Remarks" Indicative of my chess
    Get into chess, its a lifetime of enjoyment!
    Blayney Chess Club is online
    http://blayneychessclub.com

  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,310
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty
    Hi all,

    I'm embarassed to have to ask this question, but as I have never done an arbiting training course and know only a moderate amount about SwissPerfect I thought I should double-check things.
    That is what this thread is for, so everyone can learn .

    Case#1: a player rang our d.o.p. just before the round started to advise that they were sick. this explanation was accepted as genuine. because of the lateness of the notification, the d.o.p. decided that his opponent who DID turn up should get a full point, whereas the sick player should not receive a point for that round.
    In this case for a club event, I would award the person who turned up their full point and the person who rang before hand a half point bye.

    As the no-show rang before hand, was there an option to re pair the draw so the person who did attend still got a game?

    Case #2: a player simply "didn't turn up" for their final round game, with no notification to the d.o.p. at all. his opponent, who DID turn up and who had White, played 1.c4 and started the clock. player who didn't turn up lost on time.
    This is a + / - .
    If this wasn't a final round game and you had odd numbers for the next round, I would be giving the no show the bye in the next round and awarding it as a zero point bye.

  11. #11
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    40,358
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    This is a + / - .
    If this wasn't a final round game and you had odd numbers for the next round, I would be giving the no show the bye in the next round and awarding it as a zero point bye.
    Or you could even chuck them out of the tournament on the spot:

    Unless the rules of the tournament state otherwise:

    F.8 Players who are absent during a round without notification to the arbiter will be considered to have withdrawn themselves.

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,310
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Or you could even chuck them out of the tournament on the spot:
    Just when I thought I might actually get a reply saying that I was getting soft for awarding a half point bye, I get told that I should be stricter on a related issue

  13. #13
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    40,358
    Naah, I'm not telling you off for it at all. I've noticed many arbiters don't use F8 or are discretional about it. Obviously if it is not the player's fault that they failed to appear and could not notify, then they should not be thrown out.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    3,333
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Naah, I'm not telling you off for it at all. I've noticed many arbiters don't use F8 or are discretional about it. Obviously if it is not the player's fault that they failed to appear and could not notify, then they should not be thrown out.
    When I was organising tournaments and being the arbiter, I always put a rule in the tournament rules that modified F8 to allow a person with a reasonable excuse to avoid being expelled from the tournament as, in one-round-a-week events as these were, a person can find themselves caught in an awkward position at the last moment and be unable to notify the arbiter.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    4,437
    I'm finding the Case #2 view surprising. A move was played on the board (1.c4). Why is it any different to any other loss on time? If Black had turned up any time during the next hour he would have been allowed to play. So why, at the conclusion of the hour, do we all of a sudden rule that the game has not started?
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The Complete Idiots Guide to Chess Question
    By drjake in forum General Chess Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-10-2006, 09:06 AM
  2. Replies: 31
    Last Post: 23-01-2006, 01:06 AM
  3. Maccas and the question of "work"
    By Kevin Bonham in forum Non-Chess
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 22-12-2004, 05:41 AM
  4. Kevin's rating question - extended
    By Kevin Bonham in forum Ratings Arena
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 26-09-2004, 11:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •