Page 5 of 24 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 360

Thread: Mac Honour Roll

  1. #61
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Subtropical Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    I put it to you that TCO discussions directed at the consumer are nothing more than sales BS to get the consumer to fork over more money.
    Well, I'm surprised by this. I thought the opposite was true and that the 'hiding' of hidden & maintenance costs was itself BS and an old-school sales approach to increasingly more consumers.

    Motor vehicles are a good example where people now want to know what the cost of replacement headlights are when considering the purchase as a whole.

    More topically, the whole bubble-jet rort. Finally the consumer is wising up to the fact that its cheaper to actually buy a new bubble-jet printer for $60 than buy a cartridge for similar price. I've refused to go anywhere near bubble/ ink jets for 5 years because of this - applies to my home purchases too.

    TCO concepts are becoming increasingly more prevalent and I put it to you that the cheap sticker price is having less effect on consumers who now wants to know what the TCO is prior to purchase!
    Last edited by Basil; 08-05-2007 at 07:18 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  2. #62
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    on the skin of the pale blue dot
    Posts
    12,285
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Duggan
    Well, I'm surprised by this. I thought the opposite was true and that the 'hiding' of hidden & maintenance costs was itself BS and an old-school sales approach to increasingly more consumers.
    If you have an employee's computer out of action for a couple of days, it might cost you a few hundred dollars in productivity. If your home computer is down for a couple of days, what does it cost in lost productivity? Nothing.

    More topically, the whole bubble-jet rort. Finally the consumer is wising up to the fact that its cheaper to actually buy a new bubble-jet printer for $60 than buy a cartridge for similar price. I've refused to go anywhere near bubble/ ink jets for 5 years because of this - applies to my home purchases too.
    That is an urban myth. While it may be true that you can purchase a replacement printer sometimes cheaper than replacement cartridges, most times the cheap printers come with low-yield cartridges. So for example, it might come with 15ml but the replacement real cartridge might be 45ml.

    TCO concepts are becoming increasingly more prevalent and I put it to you that the cheap sticker price is having less effect on consumers who now wants to know what the TCO is prior to purchase!
    That does not explain why people are buying laptops from the supermarket. The reality is that, as you illustrated in your printer paragraph, people just throw it away if it's broken. We don't bother fixing things anymore. People will check the box, see it has 1 year warranty (the cheap ones usually do) and figure if it breaks down after a year they have got their money's worth.

  3. #63
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    5,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Duggan
    More topically, the whole bubble-jet rort. Finally the consumer is wising up to the fact that its cheaper to actually buy a new bubble-jet printer for $60 than buy a cartridge for similar price. I've refused to go anywhere near bubble/ ink jets for 5 years because of this - applies to my home purchases too.
    That's interesting, because I reckon the last five years are when the ink-jet printers have started to really hit the spot in terms of quality. You are quite right about the con of the cheap printer (can anyone say Lexmark?) but I reckon you're missing out if you boycott the entire technology for that reason..

  4. #64
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Subtropical Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Ploppy
    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    As a result of this, I'll start a bona fide comparison job with my run-of-the-mill iMac - I'll ask you guys for spec and price comparisons. I'm genuinely interested to know.
    That would be fine. I'll supply some comparable PC pricing. Do you want me to stick to RRP or the cheapest I can find for the public to buy?
    The idea is to compare apples with apples. I have it in my head, and I have read in many places that there are basically three types of PC pricing available. I'd be interested in opinion on this from all quarters. And that is:

    Budget PC:
    Cheap everything. Bargain basement price. Expect little and hope for the best.

    Intermediate PC:
    Middle of the road everything. Known brands. Not in the upper echelons, but nothing to sneeze at. Many home users and small buusiness would be directed here.

    Quality PC:
    Good everything. Pay a bit more. Get relaibility etc..

    If we can agree on that very broad definition, I'll leave the minutae to your conscience as I don't want to get into splitting $50 - $100 and I wouldn't know the veracity of what you tell me anyway

    OK, I'll pick the machine I'm typing on now as as good as any. In short, it's an all in one imac. Looks very nice (IMO). Pick up the screen and that's the computer! Beautifully finished. Plasma job.
    I appreciate aesthetics aren't in the deal for everyone, so I acknowledge that here. Equally, they are a consideration for others and I think they should be aware of that aspect if they wish to factor it in.

    The specs can be found here
    Config on the right hand side. Let me know if you need more detailed specs.

    I paid $1,800 for it about 4 months ago. Something which I forget was thrown in as well as OS 10.5 when it is released.

    I think to be fair to both sides, you should quote both of your suggestions, viz best price for a cluey shopper as well as RRP.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  5. #65
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    on the skin of the pale blue dot
    Posts
    12,285
    Ok, that's fine. Cheapie, mid-range, high-end. Do you want to do the same for desktops and notebooks?

  6. #66
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Subtropical Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    If you have an employee's computer out of action for a couple of days, it might cost you a few hundred dollars in productivity. If your home computer is down for a couple of days, what does it cost in lost productivity? Nothing.
    Disagree. There's still the cost of fixing. Time, petrol, phone calls, cost of someone to do it for you, frustration, inconvenience. It's all part of the deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    That is an urban myth. While it may be true that you can purchase a replacement printer sometimes cheaper than replacement cartridges, most times the cheap printers come with low-yield cartridges. So for example, it might come with 15ml but the replacement real cartridge might be 45ml.
    Disagree. The TCO of bubblejets is outrageous. I appreciate if you buy 'better' the bite won't be so hard, but whichever way you look at it - they're SOB's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    That does not explain why people are buying laptops from the supermarket. The reality is that, as you illustrated in your printer paragraph, people just throw it away if it's broken. We don't bother fixing things anymore. People will check the box, see it has 1 year warranty (the cheap ones usually do) and figure if it breaks down after a year they have got their money's worth.
    Of course it explains it! The buying proposition is that you spend X$ and it will last only for $X months. That changes the TCO considerably.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  7. #67
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,073
    I keep hearing that laptop parts are really difficult to replace/update/upgrade, why is that?

  8. #68
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    1,977
    I haven't had any computer I use at home encounter any major problem in many years.

  9. #69
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Subtropical Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    Ok, that's fine. Cheapie, mid-range, high-end. Do you want to do the same for desktops and notebooks?
    Let's just do hi-end (not rocket stuff - whatever you genuinely think is comparable in quality to mac - i'm leaving your known bias against macs to be resolved by your conscience - I reckon you're good for it).

    We can do laptops later when I ask someone in the office what she bought last week.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  10. #70
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    1,977
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    I keep hearing that laptop parts are really difficult to replace/update/upgrade, why is that?
    The old ones are hard to take apart, I don't know if they fixed that now. Probably also there is a problem of making the hardware to literally fit in the thing, and then having the next model be different, or something like that anyway

  11. #71
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Subtropical Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,229
    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    That's interesting, because I reckon the last five years are when the ink-jet printers have started to really hit the spot in terms of quality. You are quite right about the con of the cheap printer (can anyone say Lexmark?) but I reckon you're missing out if you boycott the entire technology for that reason..
    I'm on (colour) laser everywhere. Prefer to spend more on a quality product. Yes, I've bought 2 x Brother (cheapo) lasers (mono & colour) and won't do that again.

    As for the photo stuff at home I do the separate colour photo maker thing. I accept that's my individual preference that gives me the best of all worlds and that other people's requirements are different. I have no use for a colour, wet, bubble-jet printed thingo. But as i say, that's just me and i appreciate they might be good for school projects, but then I'm back to colour lasers, which I think have more faithful reproduction anyway with their CMYK prints as opposed to RGB.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  12. #72
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    on the skin of the pale blue dot
    Posts
    12,285
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Duggan
    Disagree. There's still the cost of fixing. Time, petrol, phone calls, cost of someone to do it for you, frustration, inconvenience. It's all part of the deal.
    Actually, you aren't disagreeing. I never said those things didn't apply. They obviously do. The thing didn't fix itself because you left it for a couple of days. What I am saying is that TCO is more important to business than a consumer. Do you dispute that?

    Disagree. The TCO of bubblejets is outrageous. I appreciate if you buy 'better' the bite won't be so hard, but whichever way you look at it - they're SOB's.
    Disagree with what? Are you disputing what I said about low-yield cartridges? Let me clarify something first. Are you talking about inkjets or lasers? Bubblejet was a Canon brand that they have not used for a long time.

    Of course it explains it! The buying proposition is that you spend X$ and it will last only for $X months. That changes the TCO considerably.
    Can you elaborate? It seems that your argument is conflicting with your example. Aren't you saying that people want something that will cost them less over time and they are achieving this by buying the cheapest sticker price?

  13. #73
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    on the skin of the pale blue dot
    Posts
    12,285
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    I keep hearing that laptop parts are really difficult to replace/update/upgrade, why is that?
    Because the salesman telling you that would rather sell you a new laptop for $2000 that he has on the shelf right now than hunt around and order a part that will take 3 weeks to get and he will make $20 on the sale.

  14. #74
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Subtropical Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    Actually, you aren't disagreeing. I never said those things didn't apply. They obviously do. The thing didn't fix itself because you left it for a couple of days. What I am saying is that TCO is more important to business than a consumer. Do you dispute that?
    No I don't dispute it. TCO is more important to business generally. I thought you were making the case that TCO wasn't relvant to consumers at all. TCO applies to all purchases, generally, and these days more so to consumers than previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    Disagree with what? Are you disputing what I said about low-yield cartridges?
    No, I'm not disputing that. I acknowledged that some are better than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    Let me clarify something first. Are you talking about inkjets or lasers? Bubblejet was a Canon brand that they have not used for a long time.
    My error. I'm talking about inkets. I've confused the issue by introducing a sub-set.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  15. #75
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    on the skin of the pale blue dot
    Posts
    12,285
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Duggan
    Let's just do hi-end (not rocket stuff - whatever you genuinely think is comparable in quality to mac - i'm leaving your known bias against macs to be resolved by your conscience - I reckon you're good for it).

    We can do laptops later when I ask someone in the office what she bought last week.
    ok, but can you list the specs of your machine? The link you gave me is a configurator with many options.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Upholding humanity's honour
    By Kevin Bonham in forum Games and Analysis
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-09-2012, 06:48 PM
  2. Tromp-aholic (James Morris)
    By Basil in forum Correspondence Matches
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 03-01-2007, 01:08 AM
  3. NSWCA - One on One with your Prez
    By arosar in forum Australian Chess
    Replies: 272
    Last Post: 10-03-2006, 10:47 AM
  4. Dwindling Numbers (s.f. Ryde Eastwood Open)
    By PHAT in forum Australian Chess
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: 26-10-2005, 01:11 PM
  5. 2005 MCC club championship
    By firegoat7 in forum Completed Tournaments
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 20-07-2005, 09:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •