View Poll Results: On Good Friday:

Voters
7. You may not vote on this poll
  • I am a Christian and will be abstaining from meat.

    1 14.29%
  • I am a Christian and will NOT be abstaining from meat.

    0 0%
  • I am a NOT a Christian and will be abstaining from meat.

    0 0%
  • I am NOT a Christian and will be NOT abstaining from meat.

    6 85.71%
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 96

Thread: Good Friday

  1. #76
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The multiverse
    Posts
    21,567
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    You're just being silly, holding Bede to one 21st-century definition of a word like ‘perfect’, or ‘complete’, and decreeing that neither term admits to degrees.
    I believe your translation was made inthe 20th century so you are just arguing that the translation you provided is inaccurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    In reality of course, an oblate spheroid with very low eccentricity approximates a sphere. Similarly, an ellipse with very low eccentricity approximates a circle. By your ‘reasoning’, a low-eccentricity ellipse approximates a rectangle with a base = major axis and height = minor axis. So in most cases, I see no need to correct anyone who claims that the earth is spherical.
    That is not my argument at all. My argument is that characterising the discrepancy by a number of 0.3 percent is misleading as this only takes into account the error in one direction.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  2. #77
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    I believe your translation was made inthe 20th century so you are just arguing that the translation you provided is inaccurate?
    No, just that your understanding of "perfection" is too rigid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    That is not my argument at all. My argument is that characterising the discrepancy by a number of 0.3 percent is misleading as this only takes into account the error in one direction.
    Still the earth is nearly spherical, more so than its orbit is nearly circular (0.3% vs 3%).
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  3. #78
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The multiverse
    Posts
    21,567
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    No, just that your understanding of "perfection" is too rigid.
    Well perhaps you could support you idea by providing a dictionary definition that supports your idea that perfection is a relative term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Still the earth is nearly spherical, more so than its orbit is nearly circular (0.3% vs 3%).
    They are different things. The orbital path is effectively a planar curve when we are talking about the shape of the earth it is the discrepancy of a surface from some ideal sphere. It is difficult to argue with you when you don't understand the issue of how to best measure that discrepancy. Your continual insistence that 0.3% is "close enough" to perfection is wrong on two grounds. Firstly perfection means that these is no discrepancy and secondly 0.3% is not the whole game.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  4. #79
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Well perhaps you could support you idea by providing a dictionary definition that supports your idea that perfection is a relative term.
    Try "lacking in no essential detail", so a 0.3% deviation qualifies for most purposes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    They are different things. The orbital path is effectively a planar curve when we are talking about the shape of the earth it is the discrepancy of a surface from some ideal sphere.
    Yes, a very small perturbation from sphericity, so small that even today many astronomers simply call earth a "sphere".

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    It is difficult to argue with you when you don't understand the issue of how to best measure that discrepancy. Your continual insistence that 0.3% is "close enough" to perfection is wrong on two grounds. Firstly perfection means that these is no discrepancy and secondly 0.3% is not the whole game.
    The 0.3% is the biggest deviation from sphericity. There are other deviations that are even less.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  5. #80
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The multiverse
    Posts
    21,567
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Try "lacking in no essential detail", so a 0.3% deviation qualifies for most purposes.
    Sorry but a sphere by definition is a surface where every point on the surface is a fixed distance from a common centre. So deviation from that is an essential detail. In fact it is the only detail which is essential.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  6. #81
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Sorry but a sphere by definition is a surface where every point on the surface is a fixed distance from a common centre. So deviation from that is an essential detail. In fact it is the only detail which is essential.
    So you are determined to be out of step with almost everyone, including top astronomers, who are happy to call the earth a "sphere" while being perfectly aware of the 0.3% oblateness? So unlike you, World-famous astronomers celebrate the Venerable Bede, and the late Sir Patrick Moore called him "the first great British astronomer".

    Yet on another thread recently, you agreed that before Newton, it was reasonable not to make Aristarchus link of the sun's great size to its centrality. I.e. in that thread, you more reasonably judged people on the basis of what was known at the time.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  7. #82
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The multiverse
    Posts
    21,567
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    So you are determined to be out of step with almost everyone, including top astronomers, who are happy to call the earth a "sphere" while being perfectly aware of the 0.3% oblateness? So unlike you, World-famous astronomers celebrate the Venerable Bede, and the late Sir Patrick Moore called him "the first great British astronomer".
    You continue to miss the point which I have been graciously putting down to deliberate obtuseness however now I am not so sure.

    The point is Bede mystical thinking lead him to believe and state as a fact that the world was a perfect sphere. After all, what else would a perfect being place at the centre of the universe (as Bede believed it to be). This is exactly the sort of Natural Philosophy that you and Beetlejuice used to pillory Bruno and yet hypocritically you celebrate Bede and his accuracy. It is a sideline that you have to abuse the definition of perfection to do this but as has been pointed out many times they are not the same word and have different meanings. Just a sphere means exactly as Bede described a surface which is the same distance from a single central point, the misspeaking of modern astronomers does not change that.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  8. #83
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    The point is Bede mystical thinking lead him to believe and state as a fact that the world was a perfect sphere.
    Who doubted it at the time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    After all, what else would a perfect being place at the centre of the universe (as Bede believed it to be).
    But if you understood the medieval worldview, the centre was the worst place to be. Just check out Dante's Divine Comedy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    This is exactly the sort of Natural Philosophy that you and Beetlejuice used to pillory Bruno and yet hypocritically you celebrate Bede and his accuracy.
    Bruno was a new-age kook, while real scientists are saying, “But Bede, one of the leading scholars in 8th Century Europe, was also an outstanding scientist.” Patrick Moore appreciated Bede as an astronomer, and he was the first to publish the right theory of tides, being caused by the moon's orbit. If Galileo had heeded Bede, he wouldn't have made his blunder that undermined his (correct) case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    It is a sideline that you have to abuse the definition of perfection to do this but as has been pointed out many times they are not the same word and have different meanings. Just a sphere means exactly as Bede described a surface which is the same distance from a single central point,
    Which even Bede didn't think, given the observable roughness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    the misspeaking of modern astronomers does not change that.
    How many modern astronomers calling the earth a "sphere" would it take to disabuse you of your fallacious reasoning?
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  9. #84
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The multiverse
    Posts
    21,567
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Who doubted it at the time?
    Someone must have or else there was no reason to write it down in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    But if you understood the medieval worldview, the centre was the worst place to be. Just check out Dante's Divine Comedy.
    Dante was around 5 centuries after Bede.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Bruno was a new-age kook, while real scientists are saying, “But Bede, one of the leading scholars in 8th Century Europe, was also an outstanding scientist.” Patrick Moore appreciated Bede as an astronomer, and he was the first to publish the right theory of tides, being caused by the moon's orbit. If Galileo had heeded Bede, he wouldn't have made his blunder that undermined his (correct) case.
    Neither were scientists, both were Natural Philosophers. Both said correct things and less correct things. They both used their spiritual beliefs to inform their interpretation of the physical world (which is what Natural Philosophers do).

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Which even Bede didn't think, given the observable roughness.
    Bede accounts for the roughness but still claims there is an ideal inscribing sphere if you read the original.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    How many modern astronomers calling the earth a "sphere" would it take to disabuse you of your fallacious reasoning?
    One reputable textbook that says that would be a start. But we know if if such a text book exists it would simply be wrong.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  10. #85
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    on the skin of the pale blue dot
    Posts
    12,324
    Not a good Friday for shopping.
    meep meep

  11. #86
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    16,872
    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Not a good Friday for shopping.
    fantastic as far as I am concerned, the missus can't make me get my credit card out
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  12. #87
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    on the skin of the pale blue dot
    Posts
    12,324
    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    fantastic as far as I am concerned, the missus can't make me get my credit card out
    True but on the way home from a long hot day of walking around the Sydney Easter Show, I wanted to get beer. Couldn't find anywhere open. Which doesn't make much sense to me, since didn't someone hand JC a sponge of wine while he was on the cross? Maybe he's more of a do as I say kinda guy.
    meep meep

  13. #88
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    16,872
    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    True but on the way home from a long hot day of walking around the Sydney Easter Show, I wanted to get beer. Couldn't find anywhere open. Which doesn't make much sense to me, since didn't someone hand JC a sponge of wine while he was on the cross? Maybe he's more of a do as I say kinda guy.
    As an altar boy my brother used to knock off the priest's altar wine - wasn't a bad drop he reckoned. He was smart enough to crack the safe where the Communion hosts were also stored but he wasn't interested in them.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  14. #89
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Penrith, NSW
    Posts
    8,660
    I am not surprised you couldn't get a beer, RR. Even Coles wasn't open yesterday. Indeed, Good Friday is the only day of the year that our local Coles is not open. BTW Jesus being handed a sponge with alcoholic drink when nearly dead is no argument for drinking such drinks. Also BTW, I am not a total teetotaller and on a hot day I will occasionally have a beer.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  15. #90
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,338
    I find it interesting that while many people are not celebrating Xmas, some are celebrating Xmas but not all day long and some are not Christian - not that many store are open. I think it may also be due to ''tradition'' rather than religious reasons.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 15-12-2007, 11:47 PM
  2. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
    By Garrett in forum General Chess Chat
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 26-07-2006, 10:39 PM
  3. Richard J vs b1_ - Some tips for you Richard.
    By b1_ in forum Correspondence Matches
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 18-09-2005, 11:42 PM
  4. Good Friday Poll
    By antichrist in forum Non-Chess
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 05-04-2005, 12:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •