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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    Was it Rogers or the Aust Encylopedia(?) who said that Flatow was Aussies most misunderstood player - doesn't Fred rank?
    Being "misunderstood" is not good enough
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  2. #32
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    My questions are:
    1) What, if any, is the story behind Steiner emigrating and Browne returning to Australia?
    2) Does anyone have biographical material or information about Flatow?
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  3. #33
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
    My questions are:
    1) What, if any, is the story behind Steiner emigrating and Browne returning to Australia?
    2) Does anyone have biographical material or information about Flatow?
    Fred is still very healthily kicking at Canterbury Bulldogs club at Sydney. He didn't go too well in a SEC but.

  4. #34
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    Being "misunderstood" is not good enough
    Maybe Fred was an Animal that is why!

    A very obliging chap and gentleman. Not like Mike who excludes people.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    Maybe Fred was an Animal that is why!

    A very obliging chap and gentleman. Not like Mike who excludes people.
    I am obliging and a gentelman towards anyone...but idiots!

    No serious chess historian would compare Flatow with Shteiner or Browne or Rogers
    Last edited by MichaelBaron; 20-03-2007 at 10:26 AM.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireeater
    In that case, I say Walter Browne as the greatest ever Aussie player. He represented Aus twice at Olympiads 1970 and 1972, represented Aus at Junior events, and was born in Aus.

    He played in superGM events the likes of which no other Aussie player has competed in, in the 1970's and won that monster tourney in Indonesia in 1982

    Very interesting info about him at wiki....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Browne
    Most people probably regard Walter Browne as an American product. Yes, he was born here and represented Australia in two Olympiads, but there seems little doubt that he regards himself as an American first and that he learned and developed his chess in the USA.

    It seems a disservice to players such as Steiner and Rogers to call Browne Australia's greatest player.

    A pertinent quote from an interview with Browne:
    c: Under what circumstances did you come to live in the United States?

    WB: My father is a third generation American; my Mother is a citizen of
    Australia. So I was born in Australia but was a U.S. citizen; a dual
    citizen of Australia and the U.S. at birth. We came to the U.S. when I was
    three years old, and I grew up around New York. I moved to California in
    1973.
    Previous discussion on chesschat in this thread:
    http://www.chesschat.org//showthread.php?t=1619

  7. #37
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    I am obliging and a gentelman towards anyone...but idiots!

    No serious chess historian would compare Flatow with Shteiner or Browne or Rogers
    He certainly did not go overseas much that I know of to earn a international titles etc. But he did dominate the scene for awhile I think, winning or equal winning about 10 City of Sydney (& maybe state championships) that included the best players in Australia at the time.

    I know he considers this more significant that being national champion.

    But again you understand - that you also may be mis-understanding him as stated in the Australia Encycl...

    I still have not found why they claimed he was misunderstood - what a burden in life? I guess should look up who the author of that entry was, but that set of books is in Sydney.

  8. #38
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
    My questions are:
    1) What, if any, is the story behind Steiner emigrating and Browne returning to Australia?
    2) Does anyone have biographical material or information about Flatow?
    1) Briefly -

    Steiner: Because, I think, being Jewish, he saw the writing on the wall and he liked Australia. He had visited here a couple of years earlier on a world tour. His father and brother Endre, also a very good chess player, were not so lucky and died in concentration camps, so I believe.

    Browne: The cynical, and perhaps accurate, view at the time was because he could get a game in the Australian Olympiad team (at bd 1) but not in the US one. I don't think he ever had any intention of staying here for long.

    2) I tried to find a reference on the web the other day but couldn't. There are a lot of Flatows there but nothing comprehensive on our Fred. I can say from my own knowledge that Fred has been playing for many years and his father Kurt also played until his death quite some time ago. Fred has won the Doeberl Cup 3 times, the first jointly with Cecil Purdy and Terrey Shaw in 1970 and again in 1972 and 1979. His other successes include the City of Sydney in 1963 (his first major one) ahead of Fuller, Hay, Fell both purdys, Kellner nad Viner, among others and the NSW Championship in 1964 ahead of Fell, Cecil Purdy, Berger and Fuller (this info from Purdy's "Chess World").

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  9. #39
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    1) ..........
    2) I tried to find a reference on the web the other day but couldn't. There are a lot of Flatows there but nothing comprehensive on our Fred. I can say from my own knowledge that Fred has been playing for many years and his father Kurt also played until his death quite some time ago. Fred has won the Doeberl Cup 3 times, the first jointly with Cecil Purdy and Terrey Shaw in 1970 and again in 1972 and 1979. His other successes include the City of Sydney in 1963 (his first major one) ahead of Fuller, Hay, Fell both purdys, Kellner nad Viner, among others and the NSW Championship in 1964 ahead of Fell, Cecil Purdy, Berger and Fuller (this info from Purdy's "Chess World").

    DJ
    Was Fuller in long pants when this happned

  10. #40
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    Was Fuller in long pants when this happned
    He was Australian Junior Champion the same year.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  11. #41
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    Thank you Dennis.
    Get into chess, its a lifetime of enjoyment!
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  12. #42
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    What to prople know about Frank Sulik and how strong a player he was? I know he won many SA championships.
    Scott

  13. #43
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Sertez
    What to prople know about Frank Sulik and how strong a player he was? I know he won many SA championships.
    Scott
    I know nothing personally though I have found some references in Chess World and the following short note in Wikipedia

    Franciszek Sulik
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Franciszek (Frank) Sulik (born 1908, Lvov, Poland (now Ukraine) – died 2000, Adelaide, Australia) was a Polish chess master.

    Before WW II, he lived in Lvov (Lviv, Lwów, Lemberg). In 1934, he tied for 2nd-3rd with Henryk Friedman, behind Stepan Popel, in Lvov championship. In 1935, he tied for 8-9th in Warsaw (3rd POL-ch; Savielly Tartakower won). In 1936, he took 2nd, behind Izak Schächter, in Lvov-ch. In 1938, he won Lvov championship.

    He played for Poland in Chess Olympiads, and won two team silver medals.
    In 1936, at first reserve board in unofficial Olympiad in Munich (+2 –3 =2);
    In 1939, at reserve board in the 8th Olympiad in Buenos Aires (+4 –2 =1).

    In September 1939, when the war was broke out, he had decided to stay in Argentina like many other chess players at the tournament. In 1940, he took 2nd place, behind Aristide Gromer, in Buenos Aires (Bodas de Plata). In 1941, he tied for 10-12th in Mar del Plata (Gideon Stahlberg won).

    As a reserve officer, he applied to join the Polish Army. He left Argentina by a British battle-ship to fight in Italy in 1943–1945. At the end of the war he moved to Scotland, and at last emigrated to Australia, where he won seven times the South Australian Championship (1954, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1976/78).
    Some idea of his strength can be gained from his being in the Polish Olympiad team which finished second in 1939.

    In CW in 1954 (p63) Purdy comments that CW recorded the arrival of Sulik in Australia but apparently he lived for some tears in outback NSW and played no chess. CW had commented on his arrival that on paper he was "the foremost master to migrate to Australia since Lajos Steiner". In 1954 he re-surfaced at the Polish Club in Adelaide. In that year he won the Adelaide Club Championship with 8.5/9 and then the SA Championship with 5/5 ahead of Endzelins. In the City of Adelaide Championship in 1955 he tied for first with Endzelins with 8/9 and then beat Endzelins 2.5 - 0.5 in the play-off. Purdy commented that Sulik "must be one of Australia's strongest players". However, he doesn't seem to have lived up to that outside SA. I can find (on a quick look) only one other reference in CW to his playing in a tournament when he finished 11th in the 1963 Australian Championship played in Perth and won by John Purdy. Many of Australia's top players of the daye were in front of him in that event, namely, John Purdy, Hay, Geus, Ozols, C. Purdy, Weber (Tasmania and former champion of the Austrian Tyrol - I just had to get that in)Hanks, Kellner and Crowl (the Australian Nimzovich - and that too!) in that order. It would seem from his record in the SA Champioship that he began to be active again in the 1970s when he would have been in his 60s (70 when he won the last one).

    DJ
    Last edited by Denis_Jessop; 21-03-2007 at 08:04 PM.
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  14. #44
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Anyway,


    Forget about the opportunist Browne.

    Lets talk F A Crowl. Do any of the Sydneysiders have any stories about his life?
    Is it true he took up residence at Hyde Park?

    Was Purdy an admirer or denegrator of him? Did Purdy simply not like him because he played unsound openings and was a blitz hustler?

    Did Crowl ever beat Purdy in key games?

    cheers Fg7

  15. #45
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    Anyway,


    Forget about the opportunist Browne.

    Lets talk F A Crowl. Do any of the Sydneysiders have any stories about his life?
    Is it true he took up residence at Hyde Park?

    Was Purdy an admirer or denegrator of him? Did Purdy simply not like him because he played unsound openings and was a blitz hustler?

    Did Crowl ever beat Purdy in key games?

    cheers Fg7
    From my reading of "Chess World" at the time (1950s and 60s) I did not get any impression that Purdy did not like Crowl. The two were quite different personalities and so was their chess but there is evidence that Purdy admired Crowl's play. On a quick look at CW I have found a fairly long biographical note in Qctober 1950, p.230, and another mention of his play in July 1948, p. 132. In the latter headed The Australian Nimzovich, a description Purdy had given of him some time before, Purdy says, among other things

    A native of Melbourne Crowl roamed the world and was still in his twenties when he returned to Australia about twenty years ago. Several times champion of Victoria, he has never finished higher than second in the Australian championship, but some of his best games are monumuents of strategic brilliance and originality. Not even Lajos Steiner can quite fathom what Crowl is up to when he is playing him.
    In the 1950 article, Purdy said

    Crowl's play at its best is so full of original strategic ideas that it is pathetic to see him beaten up - as he has been at times - by woodshifters who would not even recognise a strategic idea if it was handed to them on a plate, let alone ever concoct one themselves. Alas! Ideas are not paramount in competitive chess, but rather, avoidance of oversight.
    DJ

    PS I don't know about Crowl's record against Purdy, but Purdy says that Crowl didn't ever beat Koshnitsky, which probably only proves that K had the wood on C as some players do on others.
    Last edited by Denis_Jessop; 22-03-2007 at 09:13 PM.
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

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