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  1. #46
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    With such small Ks, these underrated juniors will stay underrated
    That crap is totally unrelated to ACF rating changes and would have been better off not being published.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  2. #47
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Duggan
    What do the 'H's and 'Z's stand for in the angry table?
    Here it is in SP format.

    Code:
    No Name                    Loc  Total  1    2    3    4    5    6    7  
    
    1  Peter FROEHLICH         2397 6     19:W 23:W 14:W  2:L 15:W  7:W  5:W
    2  Jacob A EDWARDS         1980 5.5   21:W 26:W  6:W  1:W  5:D  4:W  3:L
    3  Jonathan SARFATI        2265 5     20:D 25:W 24:W 15:D 18:D  9:D  2:W
    4  David LOVEJOY           1885 5     34:W 24:D  7:D 30:W 29:W  2:L 18:W
    5  Brian THOMAS            1869 5     28:D 36:W 17:W  8:W  2:D 20:W  1:L
    6  Tony WELLER             1835 5     35:W 16:W  2:L 21:D 17:W 18:D 20:W
    7  Leo WILKINSON           1742 5     42:W 27:W  4:D 18:D 31:W  1:L 13:W
    8  Ric - Senior AMBATALI   1691 5     31:W 41:W  0:D  5:L 28:D 29:W 14:W
    9  George E LESTER         1798 4.5   29:W 17:D 18:L 24:W 21:W  3:D 10:D
    10 Sam GRIGG               1586 4.5   32:W 14:L 42:W 31:L 25:W 30:W  9:D
    11 John C AGER             1457 4.5   41:L 31:L  0:D 46:W 40:W 24:W 22:W
    12 Peter BOOY              1342 4.5   14:L 32:D  0:D 39:W 16:W 15:D 27:W
    13 Michael CASHMAN         1928 4     25:L 46:W 34:W 19:W 20:L 27:W  7:L
    14 Bruce WILLIAMS          1900 4     12:W 10:W  1:L 20:L 19:W 28:W  8:L
    15 Oleg KORENEVSKI         1717 4     30:W 18:D 28:W  3:D  1:L 12:D 17:D
    16 Shayne HUNTER           1535 4     39:W  6:L 30:L 43:W 12:L 35:W 28:W
    17 Aurel-John BUCIU        1485 4     44:W  9:D  5:L 22:W  6:L 41:W 15:D
    18 Jack SHANKS             1450 4     45:W 15:D  9:W  7:D  3:D  6:D  4:L
    19 Sean S. ERICKSON        1437 4      1:L 43:W 39:W 13:L 14:L 32:W 29:W
    20 Alexander STAHNKE       1429 4      3:D 40:D 41:W 14:W 13:W  5:L  6:L
    21 Sophie EUSTACE          1374 4      2:L 37:W 40:W  6:D  9:L 23:D 30:W
    22 John ALKIN              1726 3.5    0:D 28:L 46:W 17:L 42:W 31:W 11:L
    23 Edward OTTSCHOFFSKI     1617 3.5   43:W  1:L 25:W 29:L 30:L 21:D 34:W
    24 Nathanael BIELENBERG    1538 3.5   38:W  4:D  3:L  9:L 36:W 11:L 31:W
    25 Yi LIU                  1346 3.5   13:W  3:L 23:L 38:W 10:L 26:D 41:W
    26 Mark C STOKES           1615 3     37:W  2:L 29:L 28:L 38:W 25:D  0:D
    27 Ernesto DOBSON          1473 3     33:W  7:L 31:L 37:W 32:W 13:L 12:L
    28 Sebastian JULE          1328 3      5:D 22:W 15:L 26:W  8:D 14:L 16:L
    29 Clifford J HARTLEY-HOLL 1300 3      9:L 44:W 26:W 23:W  4:L  8:L 19:L
    30 David CIGELJ            1230 3     15:L 45:W 16:W  4:L 23:W 10:L 21:L
    31 Regina EDWARDS          1198 3      8:L 11:W 27:W 10:W  7:L 22:L 24:L
    32 Benjamin BASSETT        925  3     10:L 12:D 35:W  0:D 27:L 19:L 42:W
    33 Jim ROGERS              821  3     27:L 42:L 37:L 35:L 44:W 46:W 43:W
    34 Garvin GRAY             1341 2.5    4:L 38:W 13:L 40:D 41:L 43:W 23:L
    35 Roy CRISTUTA            1311 2.5    6:L 39:L 32:L 33:W 37:W 16:L 38:D
    36 Norm BRAYBROOKE         1271 2.5    0:D  5:L  0:D  0:D 24:L  0:D  0:D
    37 David SOUL              1039 2.5   26:L 21:L 33:W 27:L 35:L 40:W 39:D
    38 Andrew DAVISON          913  2.5   24:L 34:L 45:W 25:L 26:L 44:W 35:D
    39 Alex MILES              847  2.5   16:L 35:W 19:L 12:L 43:L 45:W 37:D
    40 Alannah BYRNE           577  2.5    0:D 20:D 21:L 34:D 11:L 37:L 45:W
    41 Brodie MCCLYMONT             2.5   11:W  8:L 20:L 42:D 34:W 17:L 25:L
    42 Nick KOSPARTOV          1297 2      7:L 33:W 10:L 41:D 22:L  0:D 32:L
    43 John BONI               1157 2     23:L 19:L 44:W 16:L 39:W 34:L 33:L
    44 Alex BUCIU              833  2     17:L 29:L 43:L 45:W 33:L 38:L 46:W
    45 Joaquin CRISTUTA             1     18:L 30:L 38:L 44:L 46:W 39:L 40:L
    46 Jack BYRNE              213  .5     0:D 13:L 22:L 11:L 45:L 33:L 44:L
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  3. #48
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Sarfati,J - Edwards,J [A55]
    Peninsula Open (7), 07.05.2007
    [J Sarfati]

    1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nf3 Nbd7 4.Nc3 e5 5.e4 Be7 6.Be2 0-0 [draw offer, but a draw was no good to me] 7.0-0 c6 8.Re1 Qc7 9.Bf1 Re8 10.d5 [As explained elsewhere, it was worth waiting for the R to move off the f-file before playing d5, because it no longer supports the natural counter ... f5] c5 [Very solid, but White can sometimes reach the backward d-pawn with b4 and f4 breaks] 11.a3 a5 12.Rb1 Nf8 13.g3 [to prepare f4 eventually] Bd7 14.Nh4 g6 15.Ng2 Kg7 16.f4 exf4 17.gxf4 Ng4 18.Nb5 Bxb5 19.cxb5 Nh6 20.e5 Rad8 21.b3 Qd7 22.Bc4 dxe5 [Black probably should have held firm if possible] 23.fxe5 f6? [Seems to have been an oversight] 24.d6 [24.Bxh6+ Kxh6 25.d6 fxe5 26.dxe7 Qxe7 27.Qc1+ was probably clearer as George suggested] 24...Nf5 25.dxe7 Qxd1 26.Bh6+ Kxh6 27.exf8Q+ Rxf8 28.Rbxd1 Nd4 29.Kh1 [29.e6! (which is what I think George meant, was indeed more incisive) 29 ... Nf3+ 30.Kf2 Nxe1 31.e7] 29...Nf3 30.Rxd8 Rxd8 31.Rf1 Nxe5 32.Ne3 f5 33.Re1 Nf3 34.Rd1 Nd4 35.Nd5 Nc2 36.a4 Kg5 37.Rd2 Nd4 38.b4! axb4 39.a5 f4 40.a6 bxa6 41.bxa6 f3 42.Nb6 Re8 43.Kg1 Re1+ 44.Kf2 Ra1 45.Ra2 Rxa2+ 46.Bxa2 Nc6 47.Bd5 Na7 48.Kxf3 Kf5 49.Nd7! [the B and N form a barrier stopping the Black K from reaching the Q-side] ... h5 50.h4 Nb5 [Eventually Black managed to eliminate White's remaining pawns at the cost of his N, forcing White to demonstrate the K+B+N v K mate in blitz] 1-0
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 09-05-2007 at 12:40 AM.

  4. #49
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Something a bit lighter:

    Bielenberg,N - Sarfati,J [A57]
    Peninsula Open (3), 06.05.2007
    [J. Sarfati]

    1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 b5 4. cxb5 a6 5. e3 g6 6. Nc3 Bg7 7. Nf3 0-0 8. Bc4 axb5 9. Nxb5 d6 10. 0-0 Nbd7 11. Nd2 Nb6 12. Nc3 Nxc4 13. Nxc4 Ba6 14. Qe2 Rb8 15. a3 Nd7 16. Na4 Ne5 0-1

    Compare one of the earliest games with the Benko, well before Benko himself! van Scheltinga - Opocensky, Olympiad, Buenos Aires 1939

  5. #50
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    That crap is totally unrelated to ACF rating changes and would have been better off not being published.
    Let people have some fun. The passage below came from the CAQ newsletter sent to all members on the 19 July 2006. Please note that it is an estimate only as RD, other results and many other factors. Heres how to work the formula out yourself.

    Start of article

    Most sports have some way of estimating the difference in strength between players or teams. Tennis and golf have rankings, while cricket has a more sophisticated system. And, of course, all betting agencies can offer odds on particular results in any sport.

    Chess ratings are a more advanced version of these. The basic idea is that the difference between your rating and the rating of your opponent tells you how likely you are to win against them. A 100 point difference means that the higher-rated player would win about 60% of the games, and the lower-rated player 40%. A 200 point difference would give 80% and 20% scores for the higher and lower rated players. And over 300 points, the higher rated player should win almost every game

    The actual calculation of ratings is a fairly complex mathematical procedure. However, it is quite easy to obtain a reasonable estimate of your rating change from any event.

    The difference between your rating and each of your opponents' ratings will give you an expected score for each game. Add up your expected points to give your expected score, and then subtract it from your actual score in played games, ignoring forfeits and byes. Multiply by the mysterious 'K' factor - usually 30 - and you have the rating change. Let's try it with two examples from a recent Brisbane Club event

    Garvin Gray is rated 1253. His opponents were rated 744, 1441, 1476, 1677 and 973, and his results were win, draw, win, loss and win. His expected score is 1 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0 + 1 = 2.4 and his actual score is 3.5, so his change is 30*(3.5-2.4) = +33 points. The exact change is +33 points.

    Jim Rogers is rated 744. His opponents are rated 1253, 1063, 795, 1202 and 1476; and his results were loss, draw, loss, draw and loss. Expected score is 0 + 0 + 0.5 + 0 + 0 = 0.5, actual score is 1.0, so the change is +15 points compared to the exact figure of +21 points.
    Some final points. The 'K' factor is different for each player, which is the difference between the 'Glicko' system Australia uses and the Elo system. Players with few games (like juniors), or long periods of inactivity can have very high 'K's, so their ratings can change dramatically.

    And, just as Bangladesh beating Australia in a ODI didn't make them World Champions, so beating a player ranked 500 points above you doesn't mean that your rating is wrong. If you consistently beat players rated 500 points above you, then your rating will go up.

    Patrick Byrom
    CAQ Ratings Officer

    End of article


    Congrats to those playing, shame I had to work.

  7. #52
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronD
    Let people have some fun.
    The figures from Swiss-Sys are just completely misleading. They certainly bear no resemblence to the figures from ther ACF system or even the estimate from Patrick's article.

    Therefore dont sprout rubbish claiming the swiss-sys figures are just in fun as by doing so you merely show you have no clue what you are talking about.
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 08-05-2007 at 11:43 PM.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  8. #53
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The figures from Swiss-Sys are just completely misleading.
    I was kind of wonder 'bout that because me performance rating was below my actual rating, but it gives me an increase.
    Last edited by road runner; 09-05-2007 at 12:22 AM.

  9. #54
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    I only have Brians estimates here, But everytime I compare my results from the published rating change in Ggray tournaments to Patricks formula in the past they always match, so I assume that their the same

    By Patricks formula...

    Brians expected score 5.07
    Actual score 5.00
    (2)

    A different system must be used from the ones published in the past, apologies. I still cant see why they should be outlawed from being published. If there really of concern, then the ACF could outlaw there publishment by registered players, directors and arbiters. I still think your taking this issue way more serious then it needs to be, and by doing that you are making it an issue.

  10. #55
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    The only person talking about outlawing it is you.

  11. #56
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Boris, why not post your game with the young'un from the penultimate round?

  12. #57
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    I'm more referring that Bill seems to jump up and down on people and degrade them everytime ratings are mentioned. Don't worry, life was happier before I knew about this site. Could an admin please cancel my sign on.

  13. #58
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronD
    I only have Brians estimates here, But everytime I compare my results from the published rating change in Ggray tournaments to Patricks formula in the past they always match, so I assume that their the same

    By Patricks formula...

    Brians expected score 5.07
    Actual score 5.00
    (2)

    A different system must be used from the ones published in the past, apologies.
    The issue is that Swiss-sys rating estimates are rubbish and your raising Brian's estimates in relation to them is irrelevant to my original post #46.
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronD
    I still cant see why they should be outlawed from being published. If there really of concern, then the ACF could outlaw there publishment by registered players, directors and arbiters. I still think your taking this issue way more serious then it needs to be, and by doing that you are making it an issue.
    You seem to have a comprehension problem therefore I'll try and explain it as simply as possible and perhaps you will then understand.

    1. I criticised the figures shown in the post immediately following post #39 which Garvin has since deleted.
    That post showed estimated rating changes using the Swiss-Sys program.

    2. Swiss-Sys rating chnages bear no relationship to ACF rating changes, hence publishing them is simply misleading.

    3. Swiss-Sys rating changes bear no relationship to the estimated rating changes described in Brian's article.

    4. Hence the publishing of Swiss-sys rating changes are crap and should be entirely avoided.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  14. #59
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronD
    I'm more referring that Bill seems to jump up and down on people and degrade them everytime ratings are mentioned. Don't worry, life was happier before I knew about this site. Could an admin please cancel my sign on.
    C'mon Cameron.
    You have a game to finish!
    If you don't want to come back, don't. No need to cancel.
    I think you'll find Bill much more responsive to a reasonable question than a 'shot'.

    Here, check this out: http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=5964
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  15. #60
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronD
    I'm more referring that Bill seems to jump up and down on people and degrade them everytime ratings are mentioned.
    I was referring to the Swiss-sys publiished ratings, not Brian's estimates.

    You were the one who then decided to go off on a tangent by mentioning them.

    You demonstrated you really didnt comprend the situation.

    Therefore I'm just highlighting and correcting it before you comments further confuse the issue
    .
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 09-05-2007 at 12:32 AM.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

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