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  1. #1
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Who should get the BYE?

    If a BYE is awarded in a Swiss, to some player who is not wanting it, who should eventually receive it? Currently, it is always the player at the bottom of the ranking/position list. This leads to the players from the bottom quartile to bear itís unfairness [see other BYE thread]. If the unfairness is to be shared. how should it be allocated. Here are some methods:
    1. Randomly
    2. Randomly among those players who have not had a BYE in a rated tournament in the previous 12 months.
    3. Randomly to concession and junior players - after all they are paying less to enter.
    4. The highest ranked player in Round 1 second in the second - after all they were going to win anyway. But it also deprives middling players a crack at the elite. Subsequent round BYEs to be awarded by some random method.

    There is no justification that I know of that leads to the BYE being the near exclusive burden of the bottom quartile. If none can be found, it is desperately unjust to continue with the current practise of awarding it to the lowest player. Our chess administrators must then rectify this unfair system.

  2. #2
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Let me guess you got the BYE.

  3. #3
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Let me guess you got the BYE.
    Yes at Doeberl and what was even worse due to a mix up he initially started playing a game and then found he had the bye.....

    Sweeney having his game taken away from him was not a pretty sight.......

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    Yes at Doeberl and what was even worse due to a mix up he initially started playing a game and then found he had the bye.....

    Sweeney having his game taken away from him was not a pretty sight.......
    Actually he initially had the bye in Rd1, then due to a mix-up he suddnely had an opponent. It was the unravelling of the mix-up that gave him the bye again.

    But to answer the topic heading

    A) With an odd number of players, someone must have the bye
    B) The bye is a free point, which moves a player up the standings

    C) The reasoning that follows from this is: We give a free point to the player least likely to benefit from it. Who is this player? The player at the bottom of the tournament.

    Seems perfectly sensible to me. (Caveats about players getting ratings etc non-withstanding)

  5. #5
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaun
    Seems perfectly sensible to me. (Caveats about players getting ratings etc non-withstanding)
    Well there is your problem right there.
    This is a Sweeney thread.
    You are not allowed to be sensible because that puts him at a disadvantage.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Let me guess you got the BYE.
    And your point is what?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    Sweeney having his game taken away from him was not a pretty sight.......
    And you know this by rumor or by first hand observation? Lest anyone think there was a scene, I doubt that anyone would have noticed anything untoward at all, because I kept cool

  8. #8
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    And you know this by rumor or by first hand observation? Lest anyone think there was a scene, I doubt that anyone would have noticed anything untoward at all, because I kept cool
    First hand observation - I saw you looking pretty miffed and looking around for the nearest machine gun and I asked the organisers what had happened. To be fair you were pretty laid back and jovial by round 2....

    Normally when there is a bye Charles grabs me and bullies me into playing, but I think Doeberl is probably too high profile, besides you were playing in the Major and will horses wouldn't get me to play in that.....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaun
    A) With an odd number of players, someone must have the bye
    B) The bye is a free point, which moves a player up the standings

    C) The reasoning that follows from this is: We give a free point to the player least likely to benefit from it. Who is this player? The player at the bottom of the tournament.

    Seems perfectly sensible to me. (Caveats about players getting ratings etc non-withstanding)
    A) Why "must"? I thought the university environment might have taught you identify and solve problems, not drive you to ignor them.

    B) I explained that that is a bad thing.

    C) Why a "free" full point, why not a "free" half point.

    Shaun, I expect a lot more from you than this feeble restating of process. Either you think BYEs are acceptable and don't give a stuff about their rip-off and disruptive nature, or you agre that BYEs are not acceptable and endevour toeliminate them for Swiss tornaments. There is not much middle ground for you to stand on. So, what is your position.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    Normally when there is a bye Charles grabs me and bullies me into playing, but I think Doeberl is probably too high profile, besides you were playing in the Major and will horses wouldn't get me to play in that.....
    Something worse than wild horses drove me out of playing in the Minors into the maul of the Majors, ACT juniors.

  11. #11
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    And your point is what?
    That your viewpoint is possibly biased.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    That your viewpoint is possibly biased.
    Prove it. Where is your evidence?

    Since you have nothing to offer this thread, perhaps you should just stay away.

  13. #13
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    Prove it. Where is your evidence?
    You are a frequent recipient of the BYE.
    It is therefore quite reasonable that your viewpoint on it is biased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    Since you have nothing to offer this thread, perhaps you should just stay away.
    Tough luck, I wont be going anwhere.
    You just sound like someone who cannot argue their viewpoint.
    In fact you have already taken to abusing Brain Jones in your other thread on the BYE.

  14. #14
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaun
    A) With an odd number of players, someone must have the bye
    B) The bye is a free point, which moves a player up the standings

    C) The reasoning that follows from this is: We give a free point to the player least likely to benefit from it. Who is this player? The player at the bottom of the tournament.
    Another rationale is: imagine if there was an extremely weak player in the event, so bad that they lost to everyone. Such players do sometimes enter tournaments and create an effective bye. So why not just pair the bye as if it was such a player? (And treat it as starting on less than 0 since you already know it is "weaker" than everyone.) And that justifies the full point. (Again we have the problem of a weak player being 1/1 undeservedly, but see other thread for my solution.)

    It is unfair for the same player in a region to get round-1 byes over and over (especially if pairing them on 1/1 in rd 2, which greatly reduces their chances of getting a shot at someone they might beat). One solution to this is to randomly assign byes in the bottom (say) 1/8th of the field in the early rounds.

    Assigning byes high up the field is undesirable because it can interfere with the fairness of outright placings. Not only in terms of evading chances of upsets but also in terms of the player getting the bye saving energy.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Tough luck, I wont be going anwhere.
    You just sound like someone who cannot argue their viewpoint.
    In fact you have already taken to abusing Brain Jones in your other thread on the BYE.
    I did not abuse Brian Jones. Where is your proof. What I posted was a joke. Unless you want to discuss the future of the BYE, just go away.

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