View Poll Results: What do you think of the 3-1-0 system compared to the usual 1-0.5-0 system?

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  • It is clearly a good idea for all tournaments

    1 3.33%
  • It is clearly a bad idea for all tournaments

    13 43.33%
  • It is a good idea for some tournaments but not others

    6 20.00%
  • It doesn't make any real difference

    1 3.33%
  • It's a promising idea but I don't have a firm view yet

    4 13.33%
  • It might work but I'm sceptical about it

    4 13.33%
  • Completely unsure/indifferent/other

    1 3.33%
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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    3-1-0 points system [was "soccer system"] [POLL ADDED]

    This occurred to me the other night when I was talking with friends about how many draws there were in chess these days. In soccer, teams are awarded 3 points for the win and only 1 for a draw, so I wondered, what people thought of this model, as a possible one for chess tournament play? I believe a system like this would eliminate those 'gutless draws' people often complain about and encourage players to go for the win with greater instances of attacking chess and produce more spectacular games. What do you all think?
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
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  2. #2
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Agreed. 3-1-0 is a cure for gutlessness.

  3. #3
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    Agreed. 3-1-0 is a cure for gutlessness.
    There was already a huge thread on this on the old BB wasn't there?
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Cox
    There was already a huge thread on this on the old BB wasn't there?
    Yes.
    And it was shown that 3-1-0 isnt all that great.
    After all why should a hard fought draw after 50-80 moves be penalised, just because short 5-25 move draws are considered poor form.

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Yes.
    And it was shown that 3-1-0 isnt all that great.
    After all why should a hard fought draw after 50-80 moves be penalised, just because short 5-25 move draws are considered poor form.
    if i remember, i was the one who was pushing this case the most, but i came to the conclusion that the 3-1-0 format would really only be needed in super gm round robin tourneys. As we can see from the australian champs and doeberl, there are many games won and not many short draws.

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Cox
    There was already a huge thread on this on the old BB wasn't there?
    OK then. I wasn't around for the old BB though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    And it was shown that 3-1-0 isnt all that great.
    Was the hard fought 80 move draw the only reason? My point is that's good the game was fought out as such! The goal of chess is to win, so it should be rewarded such.

    Perhaps someone could summarise the pros and cons if you don't wish to repeat old arguments? Thanks.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
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  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    OK then. I wasn't around for the old BB though.



    Was the hard fought 80 move draw the only reason? My point is that's good the game was fought out as such! The goal of chess is to win, so it should be rewarded such.

    Perhaps someone could summarise the pros and cons if you don't wish to repeat old arguments? Thanks.
    this is where it started:

    http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=422&page=2

  8. #8
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    In soccer, teams are awarded 3 points for the win and only 1 for a draw,
    Even in soccer this can be unfair.
    The idea was to get rid of many 0-0 score lines.
    But should a score of say 3-3 be significantly less than a 3-2 score.
    Also even in soccer sometimes you can see a very exciting game with many attacking chances but the result is still 0-0. For attacking games where the result is still x-x it seems unfair to only get 1 point.

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    From that other thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    Stop the complaining about Linares producing as many draws as one might find in a round of Association Football.

    What do you all want ?

    PAWNALTY SHOOTOUTS ??
    That'd be so awesome.. pity it's no feasible

    It is what makes tennis a good game though - no draws!
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
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  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Just for fun, some analysis:

    1 Zhao, Zong-Yuan NSW 2386 2380 6
    2 Bjelobrk, Igor VIC 2362 2378 5.5
    3 Froehlich, Peter VIC 2397 2400 5.5
    4 Smerdon, David C VIC 2393 2380 5.5
    5 Rogers, Ian NSW 2582 2668 5.5
    6 Tan, Justin NSW 2249 2234 5
    7 Johansen, Darryl K VIC 2489 2509 5
    8 Lane, Gary W NSW 2449 2493 5
    9 Solomon, Stephen J QLD 2404 2446 5
    10 Rujevic, Mirko VIC 2273 2276 5

    Under the new system, final standings would have been:

    Zong 17
    Igor 16
    Smurfo 16
    Ian 16
    Peter 15
    Gary 15
    Justin 14
    Solo 14
    Darryl 13
    Mirko 13

    Bad news for Peter and Daz but reward for Gary with 5 wins.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    Just for fun, some analysis:

    1 Zhao, Zong-Yuan NSW 2386 2380 6
    2 Bjelobrk, Igor VIC 2362 2378 5.5
    3 Froehlich, Peter VIC 2397 2400 5.5
    4 Smerdon, David C VIC 2393 2380 5.5
    5 Rogers, Ian NSW 2582 2668 5.5
    6 Tan, Justin NSW 2249 2234 5
    7 Johansen, Darryl K VIC 2489 2509 5
    8 Lane, Gary W NSW 2449 2493 5
    9 Solomon, Stephen J QLD 2404 2446 5
    10 Rujevic, Mirko VIC 2273 2276 5

    Under the new system, final standings would have been:

    Zong 17
    Igor 16
    Smurfo 16
    Ian 16
    Peter 15
    Gary 15
    Justin 14
    Solo 14
    Darryl 13
    Mirko 13

    Bad news for Peter and Daz but reward for Gary with 5 wins.
    it is interesting to see stats like these, but they are useless in reality cause after a few rounds the pairings could be different and players who are behind early have to play more aggressive to catch up.

  12. #12
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    it is interesting to see stats like these, but they are useless in reality cause after a few rounds the pairings could be different and players who are behind early have to play more aggressive to catch up.
    Correct. A player who starts draw-draw is in a different score group to a player with a win and a loss after round 2. It is possible to score using one system and do the draw with another, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to do this.

    My view on this hasn't changed - there should be no change, but tournament organisers should feel free to take some money out of some of the lower outright prizes and instead award that money to the player who records the most wins. If a most wins prize was worth as much as, say, third place, I am sure you would see some very aggressive play - not necessarily from the top honchos, but certainly from the following pack. Perhaps this would also increase the chance of some of the smokeys doing so well that the favourites became forced to play for wins, but I'm not sure about that bit.
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  13. #13
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    PS In case anyone thinks I only say this out of fondness for draws, recently one player here told me he had never seen me offer a draw, and said that whenever anyone offered me a draw my facial expression would be much the same as if they'd offered me a pile of canine excrement. These comments surprised me, but checking my records I found that I had offered only 3 draws in the last 3 years, all against the same player.
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  14. #14
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    3-1-0, the mathematics of the Lord, it must be right!
    Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    PS In case anyone thinks I only say this out of fondness for draws, recently one player here told me he had never seen me offer a draw, and said that whenever anyone offered me a draw my facial expression would be much the same as if they'd offered me a pile of canine excrement. These comments surprised me, but checking my records I found that I had offered only 3 draws in the last 3 years, all against the same player.
    I find it amusing when little kids offer you a draw when you're about to mate them next move, hehe.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
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