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  1. #1
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    Alekhine's Defense

    Why do few GMs play Alekhine's Defense as their main defense to e4? What is your opinion about taking up this opening?

  2. #2
    . eclectic's Avatar
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    It's apparently "refuted" ...
    .

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwichenzug
    Why do few GMs play Alekhine's Defense as their main defense to e4? What is your opinion about taking up this opening?
    It is an opening like any other . And of course it has not been refuted. Some GMs still play it on regular basis.
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  4. #4
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    yes and no

    Well, it hasn't been refuted from an objective standpoint.

    BUT and it is a big BUT , from a practical standpoint black is operating on a narrow ridge in this defence after conceding the centre and space; I would advise strongly against Alekhine's defence unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing.

  5. #5
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    How about helping us lower ranked players out by telling us what Black is trying to do?
    Would be much appreciated, either as a guide to playing it as Black, or playing against it when faced with it.
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  6. #6
    CC Candidate Master sleepless's Avatar
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    Brooklyn defence

    The brooklyn variation with black's immediate Ng8 is interesting to trot out in blitz. Here's an oldie - sorry, not sure how to present it with a playable board.

    White: Solomon,Stephen J
    Black: Depasquale,Chris
    Event: Sydney: Sydney (1)
    Date: 1989
    (B02 Alekhine, Brooklyn D)

    1 e4 Nf6
    2 e5 Ng8
    3 d4 d5
    4 c4 c5
    5 Nc3
    5 dxc5 d4 6 Nf3 Nc6 7 Be2 e6 8 0-0 Bxc5 ; 5 cxd5 Qxd5 6 Nf3 cxd4 7 Nc3 Qa5 8 Qxd4 Nc6 9 Qf4 e6 10 Bb5 Bd7 11 0-0 Bb4 12 Qg3 Kf8 13 Bd2
    5 ... e6
    6 cxd5 exd5
    7 Nf3 Nc6
    8 Be2 cxd4
    9 Nb5 Bc5
    10 0-0 Nge7
    11 Bg5 h6
    12 Bf4 0-0
    13 Rc1 Bb6
    14 Nbxd4 Ng6
    15 Bg3 Nxd4
    16 Nxd4 Qe7
    17 Qd2 Nxe5
    18 Rfe1 Qf6
    19 Nf3 Nxf3+
    20 Bxf3 Be6
    21 Be5 Qg5
    22 Bf4 Qf6
    23 Qb4 Rfc8
    24 Be5 Qg5
    25 Bf4 Qh4
    26 g3 Qf6
    27 Bg2 g5
    28 Be3 d4
    29 Bd2 d3
    30 Rf1 Rxc1
    31 Bxc1 Rc8
    32 Be3 Bxe3
    33 fxe3 Qe5
    34 Qd2 Bf5
    35 Qf2 Bg6
    36 e4 Rc2
    37 Qe3 Qxb2
    38 Bf3 d2
    39 Qxa7 Rc1
    40 Qa4 Qb1
    41 Rd1
    41 Qe8+ Kh7 42 Bg2 Rxf1+ 43 Bxf1 d1=Q
    41 ... Rxd1+
    42 Qxd1 Bxe4
    43 Qxb1 Bxf3 0-1
    (44 Kf2 d1=Q 0-1 )

  7. #7
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quite a lot of GMs do play it actually. Do a search on chessbase for 1.e4 Nf6 and enter black rating >2550 and you will see that there are dozens - though a lot of them may be playing trendy gambits more than the old main lines.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by qpawn
    Well, it hasn't been refuted from an objective standpoint.

    BUT and it is a big BUT , from a practical standpoint black is operating on a narrow ridge in this defence after conceding the centre and space; I would advise strongly against Alekhine's defence unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing.
    This applies to all the openings, not just Alekhine's Defence...
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  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
    How about helping us lower ranked players out by telling us what Black is trying to do?
    Would be much appreciated, either as a guide to playing it as Black, or playing against it when faced with it.
    As nobody has yet taken up the offer I shall mention briefly what I understand the aim to be, given that I am also a lower-ranked player! As with all openings these days one really needs to get a book dealing with it to get the full picture as modern research has taken it away from the original intention in some lines. Moreover, like many of the Hypermodern openings it is susceptible of various lines that give it a rather different character depending on which is played. (Of course that also applies to other openings, notably the Sicilian.)

    The basic aim of Alekhine's Defence was to tempt White to advance his centre pawns whilst chasing the Black KN and then to demonstrate that the advanced W pawns were a weakness. This is pretty vague but cannot really be expanded on without a treatise including other options for W or B. At first the defence was very trendy but then fell from grace for a while later to undergo a couple of revivals. It still is quite popular probably, among other things, because mainstream openings have been so fully researched and riskier openings are safer when time limits are shorter.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Bourke
    How about helping us lower ranked players out by telling us what Black is trying to do?
    Would be much appreciated, either as a guide to playing it as Black, or playing against it when faced with it.
    I can surely help, pls message me for info on chess lessons .

    Btw, I have published some Bronstein's games at My Blog and one of them is Bronstein-Ljuboevic. It is a beautiful game. Many of the ideas used in that game are still relevant (even though 4 pawns attack is not that popular these days)
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  11. #11
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    sigh

    Ok, Michael Baron, I will have to risk being somewhat insulting to your breath of chess knowledge.

    Did you see all those games in the match between Lev Alburt and Nigel Short? Alburt played Alekhine's defence again and again, and Short smashed it each time. Alburt knew what he was doing with Alekhine's defence and kept trying different variations. Gulp. I don't think that Alekhine's defence can be lumped in with other openings as you suggest.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by qpawn
    Ok, Michael Baron, I will have to risk being somewhat insulting to your breath of chess knowledge.

    Did you see all those games in the match between Lev Alburt and Nigel Short? Alburt played Alekhine's defence again and again, and Short smashed it each time. Alburt knew what he was doing with Alekhine's defence and kept trying different variations. Gulp. I don't think that Alekhine's defence can be lumped in with other openings as you suggest.
    I did see the games. However Just because Short (who was already much stronger than Alburt at the time) crushed his Alekhine - it does not mean that the opening is dead. Alekhine's defence has been played alot ever since
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  13. #13
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    on the edge defences

    Ok . Here are teh orthodox defences that sail close to being unplayable in practical terms.

    [1.] Robatsch : 1...g6
    Alekhine condemned this as a "joke" defence. At best I have found that 1...g6 often leads to positions that are in theory equal but have a much harder job of piece coordination/planning for black than for white.

    [2.] Pirc : 1...d6 with various systems like 2...c6 or 2...g6 or 2...Nf6 etc. [ cantranspose into Robatsch]

    Slightly more reliable than [1.] But not much. There are two main ways to play the pirc. Go "macho" with an early...c5 and bring the queen to a5 to grab the pawn back. [ Fischer played this way against Spassky in 72 in th WCC final] Or go "sneaky" and set up for a later..c5 or...e5 counterstrike.

    [3.] Alekhine : 1..Nf6 against king's pawn opening.

    Can get a somewhat equal position if the defence is understood well. But the four pawns attack, while being harmless in theory, can smash black up over teh board.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    qpawn, are you aware that
    1. Michael Baron is a much better player than you will ever be
    2. Just because you do not understand how to play an opening does not mean that there is no good way to play it.
    meep meep

  15. #15
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    I can surely help, pls message me for info on chess lessons .
    I am sure you can, but without knowing what you would charge for an hour of instruction, I am pretty sure that for around the same money, I could buy a good book that will be there on the shelf whenever I need to refer back to it.
    Sorry Michael, but I am not some rich young kid that has parents with money to throw away on chess lessons.
    Matter of fact, I am a parent looking for money to pay for my own kids education, music lessons, riding lessons, guide commitments, and ..... do I need to go further. I forgot that most expensive thing a man can desire, a wife.
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