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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    australian open at 2004, are posters really intending

    I would like to know, are the posters who are questioning some events/concerns related to matters of the australian open 2004 really intending to do something about their concerns, or are they just having a whinge and have no intention of making any of their concerns serious in nature?

  2. #2
    CC Candidate Master peanbrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    I would like to know, are the posters who are questioning some events/concerns related to matters of the australian open 2004 really intending to do something about their concerns, or are they just having a whinge and have no intention of making any of their concerns serious in nature?
    How can you do something when the bid was already awarded without conditions?!

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peanbrain
    How can you do something when the bid was already awarded without conditions?!
    ok what can you do, well as has being assembled from the australian championships, there is a report being compiled of what is best advised for organisers when they are hosting national events.

    Maybe if many concerns are raised in a serious nature and the answers are not satisfactory from the organisers, then maybe tenders will be more heavily scrutinised before being accepted.

    Disclaimer- at this stage most of us have commented one way or another and i hope/expect that there will be many more postings on these issues, but still no real judgement can be passed until David cordover has had a chance to reply and address any concerns raised.

  4. #4
    CC Candidate Master jase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    I would like to know, are the posters who are questioning some events/concerns related to matters of the australian open 2004 really intending to do something about their concerns, or are they just having a whinge and have no intention of making any of their concerns serious in nature?
    David Cordover presents as a professional and engaging person with whom I get along well with. I am aware of many grumblings about his ethics, however one has only to read the histrionics of the "Mexican" thread to see how easily judgements can be clouded.

    DC's correspondence with Darryl Johansen [see Ian Rogers posts on the "Mexican" thread] is an example of the dubious nature of David's ethics: David offers Johansen $10 per rating point over 2500, whilst Gary Bekker, of the organising committee, was offering $1,500. Clearly Gary had David's authorisation, as he confirmed with Darryl:

    Quote Originally Posted by ChessGuru
    I would be most pleased if you continued your negotiations with either Gary Bekker or Chris Depasquale, both of whom have authority to offer conditions...
    I have had involvement with Darryl as an organiser and whilst rarely efficient or prompt, he is always courteous, helpful, and reasonable.

    Getting foreign GMs to play here is brilliant - but offensive negotiating that eliminates both of our GMs is poor form. Unfortunately it gets worse. It is my understanding that the conditions offered to Australian IMs were as follows:
    - free accommodation
    - $200

    After accepting these conditions [which are excellent, btw] they were apparently withdrawn, in an email along the lines of "Thanks for accepting our offer. Conditions have now changed. we are no longer able to provide accommodation or an appearance fee. But please come and play anyway."

    I don't want to whinge about the Australian Open. I hope it's a roaring success. But this standard of organising is poor and I understand has resulted in one resignation from the organising committee.

    The event website reflects a similar picture. Despite the assertion on JANUARY 12, 2004 that
    Quote Originally Posted by ChessGuru
    Within a week or so there will be a tournament website at www.mindsports.com.au This site will have all the details that you need!
    there is hardly any content at all, some 3 months later. The total content for the Australian Open Chess Championships would total less than this post. ChessGuru has written far more detail on this BB than appears on the official site. It looks great though

    I want to see our top players challenged by some top foreign GMs - that makes for good theatre, good press - a most unlikelt scenario, apparently.

  5. #5
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase
    Getting foreign GMs to play here is brilliant - but offensive negotiating that eliminates both of our GMs is poor form. Unfortunately it gets worse. It is my understanding that the conditions offered to Australian IMs were as follows:
    - free accommodation
    - $200

    After accepting these conditions [which are excellent, btw] they were apparently withdrawn, in an email along the lines of "Thanks for accepting our offer. Conditions have now changed. we are no longer able to provide accommodation or an appearance fee. But please come and play anyway."

    I want to see our top players challenged by some top foreign GMs - that makes for good theatre, good press - a most unlikelt scenario, apparently.
    Yo jase, you sure about the aussie IM proposition mate?

    Rogers only talked about Daryl not the IMs

    and if our GMs dont come and a lot of our IM's dont then having the 6 overseas GM will not compensate
    Always do your Best

  6. #6
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    Jase,

    I refer to your comment
    "DC's correspondence with Darryl Johansen [see Ian Rogers posts on the "Mexican" thread] is an example of the dubious nature of David's ethics: David offers Johansen $10 per rating point over 2500, whilst Gary Bekker, of the organising committee, was offering $1,500. Clearly Gary had David's authorisation, as he confirmed with Darryl:"

    Basically the problem everyone has is that it appears that Aussie GMs were offered something different from Internationals.

    Please look carefully at the facts and notice that EVERY time i have made an offer it has been the same, regardless of to whom. The offers I have made have also been ratified by our committee meetings and anyone on the "Advisory Panel" will be able to confirm as much.

    The only DIFFERENT thing is the Gary Bekker email which went out which looked to offer more. You assume this had my authorisation. This is NOT CORRECT. Gary sent that email on the very night we were having a committee meeting which determined the conditions to be offered! (He was of course absent from that meeting, being at home emailing people!).

    He has since emailed the same people admitting that the conditions offered in his email were a mistake and not authorised! So please in future check your facts.

    I will be available in Canberra over the Doeberl Cup in particular at the ACF meeting on Thursday before Doeberl starts to answer in person any and all questions or problems people have about this event or anything else. I also have a phone which you are welcome to ring at ANY TIME during the day or night to check your facts before you (i am referring to everyone here) post stupid claims and get all up in arms about things.

    PLEASE STOP WASTING MY TIME! I would love to get the website more updated however for the past MONTH I have been without a regular email account (note my infrequent postings here) and also have to wait for DUE PROCESS ... ie, committee decisions. If i could then i would run the entire thing without any input etc from CV, ACF etc and do a bloody good job, however we have a beaurocratic society and i can't post "Official" conditions entry fees, etc etc on a website before being approved by a bloody useless ACF which of course won't be until after Doeberl. If i did then i'd get blasted for putting details up and then changing them...

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster eclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChessGuru

    PLEASE STOP WASTING MY TIME! I would love to get the website more updated however for the past MONTH I have been without a regular email account (note my infrequent postings here) and also have to wait for DUE PROCESS ... ie, committee decisions. If i could then i would run the entire thing without any input etc from CV, ACF etc and do a bloody good job, however we have a beaurocratic society and i can't post "Official" conditions entry fees, etc etc on a website before being approved by a bloody useless ACF which of course won't be until after Doeberl. If i did then i'd get blasted for putting details up and then changing them...
    no comment required



    eclectic
    .

  8. #8
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChessGuru
    PLEASE STOP WASTING MY TIME! I would love to get the website more updated however for the past MONTH I have been without a regular email account (note my infrequent postings here) and also have to wait for DUE PROCESS ... ie, committee decisions. If i could then i would run the entire thing without any input etc from CV, ACF etc and do a bloody good job, however we have a beaurocratic society and i can't post "Official" conditions entry fees, etc etc on a website before being approved by a bloody useless ACF which of course won't be until after Doeberl. If i did then i'd get blasted for putting details up and then changing them...
    You are aware that the ACF can make binding decsions via email vote. As such there was no necessity to wait for the council meeting this coming week in Canberra.
    It fact it would appear there was nothing stopping you getting your fellow CV committee member and ACF Vice President Gary Wastell to raise such issues with the ACF Council and request an email vote.

  9. #9
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Dear pinocchio,

    Are you related to Chessguru or Jammo? Because when CG claims
    Please look carefully at the facts and notice that EVERY time i have made an offer it has been the same, regardless of to whom. The offers I have made have also been ratified by our committee meetings and anyone on the "Advisory Panel" will be able to confirm as much.
    I would certainly love to hear Mr Beckers and Mr Depasquales interpretation of events. It seems CG and Jammo are both contesting DKJ's claims and Ian Rogers claims, despite evidence to the contray.

    Furthermore as Jase alluded, Australian IM's have also had conditions revoked that they were initially promised.

    Truth,dare,double dare, kiss or promise?

    regards Woodpusher.

  10. #10
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    A question I have (in absolute pig-ignorance of what the normal custom with such things is this time) - are there other tournaments that pay appearance fees on a sliding scale based on ratings points?
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  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    I would certainly love to hear Mr Beckers and Mr Depasquales interpretation of events.
    Their interpretation? How's about the facts?

    AR

  12. #12
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Cordover busted talking poppycock!

    chessguru quotes in his email to DKJ
    So I responded: "In the meantime I would be most pleased if you continued your negotiations with either Gary Bekker or Chris Depasquale, both of whom have authority to offer conditions. As I said earlier, I am really hoping that you will play in this Australian Open."
    Who issued the authority????? then later on forgeting about his amnesia claims
    The only DIFFERENT thing is the Gary Bekker email which went out which looked to offer more. You assume this had my authorisation. This is NOT CORRECT. Gary sent that email on the very night we were having a committee meeting which determined the conditions to be offered! (He was of course absent from that meeting, being at home emailing people!).
    Your an amatuer Chessguru. You are also a complete liar based on your own evidence. Stop wasting our time and get out of chess administration you clown!

    Regards FG7 and friends
    Last edited by firegoat7; 04-04-2004 at 09:27 PM.

  13. #13
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    It s not as easy as it looks Bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    You are aware that the ACF can make binding decsions via email vote. As such there was no necessity to wait for the council meeting this coming week in Canberra.
    It fact it would appear there was nothing stopping you getting your fellow CV committee member and ACF Vice President Gary Wastell to raise such issues with the ACF Council and request an email vote.
    Bill

    You make it sound easy, but details can go off the rails. The VIC OPEN organising committee had a quick round-table to decide how the requested invitations from the Phillipines should be handled. I thought we all agreed; but gazza actioned something quite different. Not malicious or even unilateral; just mucked-up communications.

    Frankly I have a bit of sympathy for David C and the complextity of the task he has set himself. I just wish that if anyone was going to be put off-side it was not a local GM, or two. Getting it right with Ian and Darrel should be number 1 priority. Good luck from here on in CG.

    starter

  14. #14
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    Change of title?

    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    Cordover busted talking poppycock!

    chessguru quotes in his email to DKJ Who issued the authority????? then later on forgeting about his amnesia claims

    Your an amatuer Chessguru. You are also a complete liar based on your own evidence. Stop wasting our time and get out of chess administration you clown!

    Regards FG7 and friends
    hi fg7
    When I started replying to your post it had a different last noun in the title. What happened?

    I don't have a problem with CG's explanation that Bekker had authority to negotiate conditions and that he ended up with an unauthorised set of conditions. A simple example would be if GB was told "you are able to offer Price = $x", and in fact GB goes away and offers Price = $(x+y). In this scenario GB has acted with bounds to offer Price in the negotiation; it is just that there is a stuff-up in the number. Unfortunate, undesirable and CG obviously wishes he had avoided it. But we have to support the bloke having a GO.

    starter
    Last edited by ursogr8; 04-04-2004 at 09:49 PM.

  15. #15
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    I changed the title Starter because I did not want to risk having it censored.
    Meanwhile, I think you are in complete denial of the facts. If you let CG get away with this one then....all I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

    Cheers FG7

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