Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 136

Thread: Volunteering

  1. #1
    CC Candidate Master BroadZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    70

    Volunteering (Split from Australian chess and sex)

    that was just the one time!
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 17-03-2004 at 11:16 PM.
    thats when i get so blind i need a guidedog, a cyclops with the eyes shut talkin bout "who turned the lights off?!"

  2. #2
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Wollongong
    Posts
    4,254
    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    I hate volunteer work. I expect to get paid. Besides, I can't bloody work with 'em ACF mob.
    You don't have th workwith them!! Just have PB put a "Request for Photos" from 2004 from all states, in the ACF bulletin and collect them. Doctor them, cut and paste them into a calender template, and then ..... ummm .... Print a 50 glossies and send them to the clubs as a sample, and take orders.

    You, Amiel, would be a real photograher with real product to your name. Think CV. [not Chess Victoria, the other one ]

  3. #3
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    I hate volunteer work. I expect to get paid.

    AR
    Why? If everyone else had that attitude our sociey would collapse!

    Would you like it if you had no weekenders to play in - no Doeberl Cup, no ratings coming out. That's just an awful attitude.

    I don't mind people not helping out all the time - everyone has different circumstances. When I had my babies, I didn't do much either, as I had enough work just coping with the family, but as they have grown older I have done my bit.

    I think everyone should do some volunteering at some point in their life, whether it is taking meals to the aged, or fighting bushfires or whatever. If you just take and don't give, then you are a sad person!

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,047
    Yeah...yeah....you're all a bunch of bloody saints and martyrs, ain't ya? Well good on youse you lot. The 'volunteer' ethic is exactly why chess can't move forward. I think of it more as a 'mendicant culture' really.

    AR
    Last edited by arosar; 17-03-2004 at 06:38 PM.

  5. #5
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Yeah...yeah....you're call a bunch of bloody saints and martyrs, ain't ya? Well good on youse you lot. The 'volunteer' ethic is exactly why chess can't move forward. I think of it more as a 'mendicant culture' really.

    AR
    please explain I am genuinely trying to understand but having a lot of trouble. Tell me how you would run (for e,g,) Doeberl without any volunteers?

  6. #6
    CC Candidate Master WBA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    103
    please explain I am genuinely trying to understand but having a lot of trouble. Tell me how you would run (for e,g,) Doeberl without any volunteers?
    Okay Jenni I might give this a shot as it happens to be something I have thought and fought about a fair bit recently

    First Step - Tenders are called for. Organiser needs to meet certain guidlines, namely

    Date/Prizemoney/Strength/Time Limits/International Ratings

    Chess Organiser wins tender and runs event. Venue is provided (is it now?) and vendor shows some foresight and organises all media, hires the right people with the right contacts. Aggressively chases sponsorship (not that hard, with a big event to promote), chases internationals, runs at a profit and splits a % of proceedings with the State Organisation.

    You see the individual working for himself is going to have more to gain and will achieve a lot more than most working for state bodies. An event such as Doeberl should be tendered out, I think you might be surprised at just how much profit it might make in the right hands.

  7. #7
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    17,058
    Quote Originally Posted by WBA
    Okay Jenni I might give this a shot as it happens to be something I have thought and fought about a fair bit recently

    First Step - Tenders are called for. Organiser needs to meet certain guidlines, namely

    Date/Prizemoney/Strength/Time Limits/International Ratings

    Chess Organiser wins tender and runs event. Venue is provided (is it now?) and vendor shows some foresight and organises all media, hires the right people with the right contacts. Aggressively chases sponsorship (not that hard, with a big event to promote), chases internationals, runs at a profit and splits a % of proceedings with the State Organisation.

    You see the individual working for himself is going to have more to gain and will achieve a lot more than most working for state bodies. An event such as Doeberl should be tendered out, I think you might be surprised at just how much profit it might make in the right hands.
    Since I dont recall ever seeing you post on the old ACF BB its likely you never saw the opinions of those who belived that chess organisers should make as little a profit as possible out of any event they may organise and that all income for the event should be spent on reasonable expenses and all the rest go back to the players as prize money.

  8. #8
    CC Candidate Master WBA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    103
    Hi Bill

    Your assumption is correct I in fact never read a single post on the old board. But I believe the consensus of the posters who feel that way are wrong.
    Now before anyone gets on their high horses I am not completely against volunteer work. I have given plenty of my time to MCC and before that I was doing the same thing in Shepparton and coaching the juniors for nothing. I have also contriubuted my time to community centres not involved in chess. This is not a stupid attempt at spruiking "look at me" behaviour, this is just informing where I sit, and showing I do hold volunteers in High regard.

    But the truth is that Doeberl could be run without any unpaid volunteers and it could be run very successfully. I am of the opinion that people working on promoting their own tournaments will have greater success. They are usually very highly motivated and successful people, very persuasive people and very efficient people. If someone can run a weekender that makes a $4000 profit and the organisation (s) get their share I cannot see a problem. Until chess organisers are more professional then the standards of most of the tournaments in Aus will be remain very poor.

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,047
    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    please explain I am genuinely trying to understand but having a lot of trouble. Tell me how you would run (for e,g,) Doeberl without any volunteers?
    Don't be so ridiculous, alright? You're stuck in this idea that volunteering is the only way to make an event happen. The least of what I'm suggesting is to actually compensate people for their commitment - not just freakin' exploit them. I mean, think about it: some blokes here who actually 'volunteer' are volunteering their professional expertise for which they normally get paid $$$ per hour. Chess, and Aussie chess especially, just exploits that. We have a freeloading culture. And it should stop.

    So now you wonder, alright, where we gonna get the dough from? Well, from the likes of me, of course. Now if you people wanna charge me $100 membership, say - and I reckon there's value in it - I'll happily fork out. Problem with you lot is that you set your sights so so low. Always thinking, "what about 'em poor pensioners, students, unemployed". I say, "f**k 'em!" They wanna play, they pay. Easy. Profit. Profit. Profit. That must be the objective.

    AR

  10. #10
    CC Candidate Master WBA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    103
    Don't be so ridiculous, alright? You're stuck in this idea that volunteering is the only way to make an event happen. The least of what I'm suggesting is to actually compensate people for their commitment - not just freakin' exploit them. I mean, think about it: some blokes here who actually 'volunteer' are volunteering their professional expertise for which they normally get paid $$$ per hour. Chess, and Aussie chess especially, just exploits that. We have a freeloading culture. And it should stop.

    So now you wonder, alright, where we gonna get the dough from? Well, from the likes of me, of course. Now if you people wanna charge me $100 membership, say - and I reckon there's value in it - I'll happily fork out. Problem with you lot is that you set your sights so so low. Always thinking, "what about 'em poor pensioners, students, unemployed". I say, "f**k 'em!" They wanna play, they pay. Easy. Profit. Profit. Profit. That must be the objective.

    AR
    I do not think all volunteers are exploited, parents help out whilst spending time with their children and others actualyl like helping, but you are right about standards and sight ebing so low.

    Australian chess is off the radar when it comes to successful well run events, they just barely exist if at all and one of the reasons is that expectations are so low. What would be considered as an abject failure within some sporting communities is an acceptable return in chess and the bar really needs to be raised to the next level.

    AR your comments about students pensioners etc looks like one made to shock, but it reads stupid and hard headed. The Unemployed, The juniors & their parents as well as grandparents (retirees/pensioners) are among those that can do the most good for an organisation. Without them nobody survives

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,047
    Quote Originally Posted by WBA
    The Unemployed, The juniors & their parents as well as grandparents (retirees/pensioners) are among those that can do the most good for an organisation. Without them nobody survives
    Fine! But charge 'em. You can charge 'em a discount - but higher than what we're charging them at the moment. Trust me...increase the fee and they'll still be around.

    AR

  12. #12
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by WBA
    Hi Bill

    Your assumption is correct I in fact never read a single post on the old board. But I believe the consensus of the posters who feel that way are wrong.
    Now before anyone gets on their high horses I am not completely against volunteer work. I have given plenty of my time to MCC and before that I was doing the same thing in Shepparton and coaching the juniors for nothing. I have also contriubuted my time to community centres not involved in chess. This is not a stupid attempt at spruiking "look at me" behaviour, this is just informing where I sit, and showing I do hold volunteers in High regard.

    But the truth is that Doeberl could be run without any unpaid volunteers and it could be run very successfully. I am of the opinion that people working on promoting their own tournaments will have greater success. They are usually very highly motivated and successful people, very persuasive people and very efficient people. If someone can run a weekender that makes a $4000 profit and the organisation (s) get their share I cannot see a problem. Until chess organisers are more professional then the standards of most of the tournaments in Aus will be remain very poor.
    I sort of agree with a lot of this - there is no reason why major tournaments cannot become more professional and be run better. It is what Cordover is doing with his Mt Buller concept and I support what he is trying to do (with the exception of the schools comp), until such time as it has happened and can be evaluated in the light of the experience.

    I suppose it is the blanket attack on volunteering that I object to. While Doeberl can probably run without volunteers (there are only about 4 people who do all the work at the moment), it is more the clubs and development activities that would collapse.

    I even have a little bit of sympathy for AR's attack on special rates for disadvantaged, because often the people who complain about costs are the ones who are most capable of paying. However I do think we ought to be a bit more of a caring society. I wonder how AR will end his days? A very lonely old man, dependent on all those hated volunteers for a bit of sunlight in his life!

    I don't feel a martyr because of the volunteer work I do - I love it! I have made friends with people all over Australia (except probably WA!) and a great sense of achievement - much more so than paid work.

  13. #13
    CC Candidate Master peanbrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Fine! But charge 'em. You can charge 'em a discount - but higher than what we're charging them at the moment. Trust me...increase the fee and they'll still be around.

    AR
    Excellent!!

    I look forward to the first tournament to be commercially run by AR and WBA jointly. When is it going to happen guys??

  14. #14
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    We have a freeloading culture. And it should stop.


    AR
    Well I am not an Australian originally either, but I think the strong volunteer culture that exists is one of the things I like best about Australia. It is not free loading - I think you are the free loader!

    Maybe we could have a two tiered entry system to comps - those people who have a record of helping in their organisations get a discounted entry and the AR's who don't believe in volunteering and who believe that volunteers should be paid, could pay maybe twice the going rate. This sounds like a win win to me - the tournament/club gets its normal entry fees and AR is happy because we no longer have volunteers - they get paid in entry fees.

  15. #15
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Western Sydney
    Posts
    1,441
    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Yeah...yeah....you're all a bunch of bloody saints and martyrs, ain't ya? Well good on youse you lot. The 'volunteer' ethic is exactly why chess can't move forward. I think of it more as a 'mendicant culture' really.

    AR
    I agree with you 1million% AR

    Helping chess is more than volunteering. If you spend $ on buying chess books and chess videos then you are probably doing far more than a volunteer. Ask yourself why do people volunteer when they can instead work and get more money and help australain chess

    people can be so narrowminded
    Always do your Best

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Australian Clubs Team Champions
    By chesslover in forum Australian Chess
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: 26-02-2004, 06:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •