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  1. #16
    CC Candidate Master EZBeet's Avatar
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    Belty, that's a good swindle too.

    I would expect to see quite a few examples of lower rated players throwing away the win in a rook endgame.

    This type of endgame is very fertile ground for sowing the swindle tree seeds.

  2. #17
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Another common "swindle" is when a high rated player escapes with a draw in a lost position. The lower rated player can get nervous and become "afraid of ghosts" to quote Solo. I'll try to dig up a game where I offered a draw and should have won instead.
    meep meep

  3. #18
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Event: 2005 Nell Van Der Graff Classic
    Round: 1
    White: Garvin Gray
    Black: Stephen Solomon
    Result: 0-1

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    I have put this game up before, but it does apply here as well.
    http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=2936

  4. #19
    CC Candidate Master EZBeet's Avatar
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    Ouch, that must have hurt.

    I bet there was quite a crowd gathering after you took the rook on a8

  5. #20
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Ouch from here too. Nice work to get there, though.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  6. #21
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EZBeet
    Ouch, that must have hurt.

    I bet there was quite a crowd gathering after you took the rook on a8
    A few ppl walking by quite regularly, but not the crowd you would expect because we werent one of the last to finish. Stephen I had only used 15 mins each up until move 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Duggan
    Ouch from here too. Nice work to get there, though.
    Learnt a few things from the game.

  7. #22
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EZBeet
    I bet there was quite a crowd gathering after you took the rook on a8
    A shallow assessment of the game is that Solomon lost a rook and swindled a win from a theoretically lost position. What actually happened is that white played accurately and could almost force a draw. The best line without a forced draw involved black losing the rook and going into a theoretically lost position.

    However, Solo back himself to go the rook down and outplay his opponent for a win which is exactly what happened.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  8. #23
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    KB does have much more 'opportunity' for swindles since in Tas they play guillotine time controls
    This is true. However as well as the really outrageous swindle against Lin above I also swindled Zileski who missed 3 chances to go a clear pawn up before losing - both of these at Mt Buller (90 mins + 1 minute/move).

    I should also stress that those posted are only a small minority of the swindles I have inflicted in the 21st century. I have left others out, because I have won so many swindles that I cannot possibly remember them all, because most wins where the opponent loses a won game on the clock don't really count, and because it would be unsporting and mean to post half a dozen or more swindles against the same opponent. And if we go back into the 20th century, well then my talents were really at their peak.

  9. #24
    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
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    Garvin I am truly sorry that you lost that game against Solomon. I would have trouble sleeping for about 3 weeks after that sort of sorrow, I may even need antidepressants.

  10. #25
    CC Candidate Master EZBeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    ...The best line without a forced draw involved black losing the rook and going into a theoretically lost position...
    Wonder how much I could get on Ebay for this sack of horse feathers


    Garvin was bringing it home until 33. Bd3 (which I am sure he knows - sorry GG) when drawing chances appear for Solo.

    This game is truly one of the great swindles of the 21st century!

  11. #26
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    In assessing this Swindle, consider the following:

    * The strength of the opponent.
    * How early in the game I was lost and how long I was lost for.
    * The shockingness of the elementary blunder that placed me in a lost position in the first place. Any player with a four-figure rating would be suitably ashamed.
    * The fact that even after the initial Swindle, I was still lost and had to rely on another mistake to save half a point.
    * The fact that I had Swindled my previous opponent too.

    (OK it was only a G60).

    Given that I had twelve minutes to four and a half I seriously considered playing on and trying to get a full point for my Swindle, but wimped out on the grounds that I was scared of his a-pawn and that if I still lost after a Swindle of such magnitude it would have been sadly wasted.

    Without further ado I bring you Bonham (1966)-Dowden (2167), Lton Weekender yesterday.

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  12. #27
    CC International Master
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    What do people think counts as a swindle?
    Is it just a win from a lost position?
    I have always thought it meant something more than that. Does it mean win from a lost position via a trap? Does the trap have to be clever? Are the ratings important?

    I ask this since I have had many games on both sides, but usually it seems to me that its really just the fault of the side that blundered, rather than the inspiration of the swindler. However there can be times when the swindle is really clever, or really blatant, which makes it rise to a level above.

    My image of the perfect swindle is where you place your bishop en prise, slap your forehead, audibley lament the loss of said bishop, and then fork their king and queen when they take it.

    Regarding Garvins loss to Solomon, I was sitting on the board next to him when this happened. I was watching for the point at which Garvin latched onto a way to win the position, until then it's always in doubt since Solomon can just compensate for his lack of a rook by outplaying him. I thought Garvin found the plan with h4! Aha, h4-h5-h6-h7-h8Q, good plan! Alas he didnt follow it through.

  13. #28
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I think that if you get in a lost position then steadily outplay your opponent that isn't a swindle. There should be a feeling that the opponent was tricked/robbed/cheated of an otherwise natural result. Also there should be some kind of sneaky element to it - not just someone leaving a piece en prise while winning, but rather the sort of blunder that seems like a natural move until you look more closely.

  14. #29
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    Regarding Garvins loss to Solomon, I was sitting on the board next to him when this happened. I was watching for the point at which Garvin latched onto a way to win the position, until then it's always in doubt since Solomon can just compensate for his lack of a rook by outplaying him. I thought Garvin found the plan with h4! Aha, h4-h5-h6-h7-h8Q, good plan! Alas he didnt follow it through.
    sheesh, I have had that game looked through and commented on enough already.

    Stephen made a similar comment looking through the game afterwards about continuing to move the h pawn up the board.

  15. #30
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    Has anyone noticed what appears below this thread in the Similar Threads department Ironic
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