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  1. #1
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    Ballarat Begonia Open

    anyone know what is happening to this event? This is supposed to be the number 2 weekender in Australia, and yet there is no news.

    Any mexicans out there who can update us?
    Always do your Best

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by chesslover
    anyone know what is happening to this event? This is supposed to be the number 2 weekender in Australia, and yet there is no news.

    Any mexicans out there who can update us?
    CL

    First, there was a link in the Chess VICTORIA newsletter, I mentioned Thursday.
    Second, there is a thread under Tournaments that is specifically 38th Ballarat/Begonia
    Third, I am not sure they run to live games and web-updates between rounds. Dial in and see.

    starter

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    CL

    First, there was a link in the Chess VICTORIA newsletter, I mentioned Thursday.
    Second, there is a thread under Tournaments that is specifically 38th Ballarat/Begonia
    Third, I am not sure they run to live games and web-updates between rounds. Dial in and see.

    starter
    okay, thanks

    I just assumed that as other tournaments were updated here, that the Ballarat one would be too
    Always do your Best

  4. #4
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    Are those impatient individuals irritating! For some reason Mr.Chesslover wants the results already on the second day of the tournament (7/3)! Apparently, he doesn't seem to read anything else than this bulletin board,as there was plenty of pre-tournament publicity, eg.Australian Forum, ACF Bulletin, VCA Newsletter, Newspaper columns etc.
    Anyway, after we got about one night rest to recover, here follows the final standing list. Give me some more time and you will have some further details.

    We had again a great turn-out (118), with a very broad top section, a very good number of juniors (again), great weather, and with Stephen Solomon winning again.
    Equal 2nd became some other (ex-?) Queenslanders (!) Anastasiya Sorokina and David Smerdon, together with Guy West.

    Bas van Riel

    38TH BALLARAT BEGONIA OPEN 2004
    6-8th March

    Final Standings
    Place Name Feder Rating Score

    1 SOLOMON, Stephen VIC 2446 6.5
    2-4 WEST, Guy VIC 2383 6
    SMERDON, David VIC 2380 6
    SOROKINA, Anastasia QLD 2204 6
    5-6 RUJEVIC, Mirko VIC 2276 5.5
    HUMPHREY, Jonathan QLD 2062 5.5
    7-18 FROEHLICH, Peter VIC 2400 5
    BOOTH, Stewart VIC 2149 5
    OGADA-OSIR, Ibrahim VIC 1744 5
    FLITNEY, Adrian SA 1989 5
    HAMILTON, Doug VIC 2238 5
    JONES, Lee NSW 2071 5
    WRIGHT, Ian VIC 2031 5
    DIZDAREVIC, Mehmed VIC 2006 5
    O'CARROLL, Jeremy VIC 2067 5
    DRAGICEVIC, Domagoj VIC 2009 5
    FLETCHER, Steven VIC 1877 5
    CHARLES, Gareth NSW 2106 5
    19-30 RUTHERFORD, Simon VIC 2366 4.5
    BOURMISTROV, Denis VIC 2112 4.5
    SANDLER, Leonid VIC 2371 4.5
    VOON, Richard VIC 1920 4.5
    PYKE, Malcolm VIC 1978 4.5
    LOJANICA, Milenko VIC 2085 4.5
    STOJIC, Dusan VIC 1935 4.5
    LUGO, Ruperto VIC 1781 4.5
    BOOTH, Shane VIC 1998 4.5
    PAPADINIS, Jim VIC 1752 4.5
    LIN, Zhigen VIC 1559 4.5
    KARA, Barbaros VIC 1688 4.5
    31-52 HOLT, Kenneth VIC 1860 4
    RAINE, Marcus VIC 1947 4
    JAGER, Jesse VIC 1821 4
    PECORI, Ascaro VIC 2023 4
    SZUVEGES, Narelle VIC 1774 4
    JONES, Brian NSW 2128 4
    ANDERSON, Alistair VIC 1847 4
    LISTON, Howard VIC 1788 4
    McDONALD, Joel VIC 2100 4
    VAN RIEL, Bas VIC 1829 4
    BROCKMAN, Roland VIC 1703 4
    STOJIC, Svetozar VIC 1772 4
    WALLIS, Christopher VIC 1549 4
    LYCETT, Garry VIC 1678 4
    DOUR, Nicholas VIC 1614 4
    BARROW, Nigel VIC 1869 4
    VAN DIJK, Devrim VIC 1560 4
    JIA, Jing VIC 1803 4
    WOLF, Peter VIC 1655 4
    ANTONIAZZI, Francesco VIC 1715 4
    OGDEN, Marcus VIC 1703 4
    STANISHEFF, Alex VIC 1492 4
    53-68 TSAGARAKIS, Angelo VIC 1864 3.5
    McCART, Richard VIC 1798 3.5
    GHOBRIAL, Adel VIC 1637 3.5
    MARTIN, Richard VIC 1299 3.5
    FROST, Peter VIC 1833 3.5
    FLETCHER, Andrew VIC 1754 3.5
    LIDUMS, Aivars SA 1734 3.5
    STEWART, Scott VIC 1687 3.5
    FITZPATRICK, Andrew ACT 1763 3.5
    LINDBERG, Gordon VIC 1757 3.5
    FLUDE, David VIC 1751 3.5
    HICKMAN, Casey VIC 1319 3.5
    ROBERTS, Mark VIC 1814 3.5
    MOLLARD, Maxwell VIC 1612 3.5
    KERKSAL, David VIC 1424 3.5
    McKENCHIE, Andrew SA 1348 3.5
    69-91 KALISCH, Tom VIC 1829 3
    JUSZCZYNSKI, Matthew SA 1709 3
    MELDAU, Henning VIC 1623 3
    KAPLAN, Alex VIC 1646 3
    COOK, Patrick VIC 1784 3
    DALTON, Joshua VIC 620 3
    BROTHERIDGE, Jamie VIC 1600 3
    BULTMAN, Grant VIC 1578 3
    FRANGAKIS, John VIC 1380 3
    FINLAY, Colin NSW 1594 3
    ANDREWS, Charlie VIC 1630 3
    COONEY, Matthew VIC 1150 3
    SMITH, Wendy VIC 1220 3
    KOSTRZEWA, Jake VIC 1123 3
    BAILEY, Mitchel VIC 1259 3
    GLENTON, Alan VIC 1200 3
    YOUNG, Darren VIC 1003 3
    HOPF, Lorna VIC 1164 3
    STEWART, Clint VIC 1304 3
    DALTON, Laurie VIC 1054 3
    ELDRIDGE, James VIC 1286 3
    YU, Sally VIC 711 3
    YU, Derek VIC 1140 3
    92-98 MORRIS, James VIC 1420 2.5
    POWER, Paul VIC 1608 2.5
    BAILEY, Robert VIC 1369 2.5
    SOCO, Dejan VIC 1603 2.5
    BROWN, Cyril SA 1506 2.5
    FRASER, Reuben VIC 600 2.5
    THEODOSIOU, Peter VIC 1123 2.5
    99-110 HAMILTON, Ian VIC 1364 2
    ROWSTON, Bruce VIC 1386 2
    SCHON, Eugene VIC 853 2
    DALTON, Samuel VIC 1014 2
    TAYLOR, Stephen VIC 1652 2
    LUGO, Jerome VIC 909 2
    EUSTACE, Sophie VIC 467 2
    TOPER, David VIC 803 2
    VAN DIJK, Marieke VIC 753 2
    KENMURE, Jamie VIC 800 2
    BELL, Nathan VIC 600 2
    AMBROSE, Lauren VIC 400 2
    111-113 QIAN, Dennish VIC 835 1.5
    THAKUR, Udit VIC 1080 1.5
    BELL, David VIC 1031 1.5
    114-117 BALNIONIS, Alex VIC 900 1
    McCART, Tully VIC 767 1
    SKYLLAS, Elizabeth VIC 600 1
    BELL, Laura VIC 400 1
    118 BOSMAN, Kevin VIC 600 0.5

  5. #5
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Congratulations on the outstanding turn out for the tournament Bas. It is a credit to you and the Ballarat committee!

    Could we have a couple of games please?

    Cheers FG7

  6. #6
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    Thank you FG for your good words about the Ballarat Tournament.

    You will note that since Chess World has been sponsoring the event they have achieved their Highest 2 attendances of ALL TIME!

    119 in 2003 was a record, and this year 118 was just short....in previous years the tournament was around the 90-100 player mark, but Bas will have all the stats.

  7. #7
    CC Candidate Master jase's Avatar
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    Congrats to Bas and his team for the outstanding turn-out at Ballarat.

    I haven't had more than a cursory inspection yet, but the pairings on the top boards look curious - the top seeds seemed to avoid each other a lot - perhaps SwissPerfect adhering to its colour alternation regime?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bas

    We had again a great turn-out (118), with a very broad top section, a very good number of juniors (again), great weather, and with Stephen Solomon winning again.
    Equal 2nd became some other (ex-?) Queenslanders (!) Anastasiya Sorokina and David Smerdon, together with Guy West.

    Bas van Riel
    well done on having such a massive turnout

    Great to see david smerdon right up there, after his aust champs performance. great way to remind the olympaid selectors that he is back
    Always do your Best

  9. #9
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    In reply to some of the queries and comments made, I would like to firstly acknowledge Kevin Perrin's role as the driving force (for many, many years; 38?) behind the Ballarat Begonia. Therefore, it should be Kevin and his team, and not me etc.who should be congratulated with our success. Kevin not only is the DOP of the event, but he also organises the committee, and does many other things during and in between the rounds. Even collecting the rubbish and setting up the boards.
    But it really is a collective effort by the members of the Ballarat Chess Club under his supervision. I am probably the one who makes most of our 'noise' via internet and other media, to try and promote the Begonia, before and after...

    Secondly, ChessGuru is even more than correct by saying that the Begonia had 118 (this year), 119 (2003) entrees, coinciding with ChessWorld's sponsorship support (coincidental or causal?) compared to 76 entrees in 2002 and 79 in 2001. We had a previous record of 90 players in 2000.
    So, certainly in numbers we have strongly expanded lately.

    Firegoat asked for some games to be published. I am still in the (tedious) process of punching them into my computer, and moreover I am not sure yet which games are the best to show at this stage.
    We have collected all the scoresheets of the top-ten boards of each rounds. They will be distributed and published on our website, hopefully within the next few days.
    But here are two games, one by the tournament winner.

    Doug Hamilton - Stephen Solomon
    Ballarat Begonia'04.rnd4
    1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Nc6 8.e5 h6 9.Bh4 g5 10.fxg5 Nd5 11.Nxd5 exd5 12.exd6 Bxd6 13.Qe2+ Kf8 14.0𢠢 Nxd4 15.Rxd4 hxg5 16.Bf2 Bf5 17.Qd2 Be4 18.Be3 Be5 19.Rb4 Qd6 20.Bxg5 Rh5 21.Be3 d4 22.Be2 Rc8 23.Bxh5 Rxc2+ 24.Kd1 Rxd2+ 25.Bxd2 Bf4 26.Rb3 Bxd2 01

    Anastasia Sorokina Peter Froehlich
    Ballarat Begonia'04.rnd7
    1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bc4 e6 7.Bb3 b5 8.00 Be7 9.f4 Bb7 10.e5 dxe5 11.fxe5 Bc5 12.Be3 Bxd4 13.Bxd4 Nc6 14.exf6 Qxd4+ 15.Kh1 gxf6 16.Qh5 Qe5 17.Qh3 Ne7 18.Rae1 Qd4 19.Ne2 Qxb2 20.Nf4 0𢠢 21.Bxe6+ fxe6 22.Nxe6 Nc6 23.Nxd8+ Kxd8 24.Rd1+ Kc7 25.Rd7+ Kb8 26.Qg3+ Ne5 27.Rxb7+ Kxb7 28.Qg7+ Nf7 29.Qxf7+ Kb8 30.Qxf6 Qxf6 31.Rxf6 Kb7 32.Rh6 Rc8 33.Rxh7+ Kb6 34.g4 Rxc2 35.g5 b4 36.g6 Rc8 37.g7 Rg8 38.Rh6+ Kc5 39.Rg6 a5 40.h4 a4 41.h5 b3 42.h6 b2 43.Rg1 Kc4 44.Rb1 Kc3 45.Rxb2 Kxb2 46.h7 10

  10. #10
    CC Candidate Master jeffrei's Avatar
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    6...it's the magic number?

    Looking through the results at Ballarat I came to a rather disturbing discovery - I noticed that none of the three people on 6/7 played either Solomon or another person who got 6/7! Now I'm not having a go at these players - obviously they can't help who they're paired against - but from a competitive point of view I find it very unsatisfactory. I don't have access to the records from past Ballarat tournaments, but I can think of a couple of other instances where this has happened: in 1996 I got 6/7 at Ballarat equal second with Kontorovich while Johansen came first with 6.5/7 - I didn't play Kontorovich or Johansen. In 1999 I got 6/7 equal first with Chapman and Johansen - I didn't play Chapman or Johansen. As I've said I don't have full access to the tournament records but there you go I've just named 5 recentish instances where someone has got 6/7 without playing anyone above them or equal with them. Presumably the (CG fuelled?) increase in numbers only makes this sort of thing more likely to happen.

    I'm a big fan of the accelerated system they have at Box Hill whereby the field is split into two groups - it cuts down a lot on junk pairings and the yo-yo between high and low rated players that many competitors experience in so-called 'Monster Swisses'. It also makes the rating prizes much more meaningful because you're generally playing only against people from your own rating group. Starter, do you think it'd be feasible to use the Box Hill approach at Ballarat? Would it be feasible to have 3 groups at a big tournament like Ballarat (as opposed to the 2 at Box Hill)?

    PS: The other way of looking at this is to say that Solo came first without playing any of the people who came second! It just seems wrong to me.
    Last edited by jeffrei; 11-03-2004 at 12:09 AM.

  11. #11
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    SWISS not so perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrei
    Looking through the results at Ballarat I came to a rather disturbing discovery - I noticed that none of the three people on 6/7 played either Solomon or another person who got 6/7! Now I'm not having a go at these players - obviously they can't help who they're paired against - but from a competitive point of view I find it very unsatisfactory. I don't have access to the records from past Ballarat tournaments, but I can think of a couple of other instances where this has happened: in 1996 I got 6/7 at Ballarat equal second with Kontorovich while Johansen came first with 6.5/7 - I didn't play Kontorovich or Johansen. In 1999 I got 6/7 equal first with Chapman and Johansen - I didn't play Chapman or Johansen. As I've said I don't have full access to the tournament records but there you go I've just named 5 recentish instances where someone has got 6/7 without playing anyone above them or equal with them. Presumably the (CG fuelled?) increase in numbers only makes this sort of thing more likely to happen.

    I'm a big fan of the accelerated system they have at Box Hill whereby the field is split into two groups - it cuts down a lot on junk pairings and the yo-yo between high and low rated players that many competitors experience in so-called 'Monster Swisses'. It also makes the rating prizes much more meaningful because you're generally playing only against people from your own rating group. Starter, do you think it'd be feasible to use the Box Hill approach at Ballarat? Would it be feasible to have 3 groups at a big tournament like Ballarat (as opposed to the 2 at Box Hill)?

    PS: The other way of looking at this is to say that Solo came first without playing any of the people who came second! It just seems wrong to me.
    jeffrei

    I am dizzy with the appearance of some-one else speaking in postive terms about the Box Hill accelerated SWISS; after all this time.

    The fundamental issues are
    >1 Players prefer competitive games.
    >> 2 In your view the Ballarat pairings failed in this respect
    >>> 3 The Box Hill accelerated SWISS method requires 3rd and 4th quartile players to agree at the point of entry to the tournament that they are not eligible for A Division prizes. (With a field of 120 it would be tempting to run a C Division too, and hence 5th and 6th sextile players would need to agree not to be eligible for B division nor A Division prizes).

    And would I vote for it if I was on the organising committee? Yes.

    But remember from the VIC OPEN thread I got out-voted when I proposed it for that tournament. Not all see the issue the same way. Some even think the SWISS system is sacred (not to be fiddled with for major events) and are willing to back it up with donations (see on the VIC OPEN web-site; it has attracted a donation from the 'Society for the pure SWISS').

    If Bas van Riel would like to send me his SWISS Perect files of the tournament I will calculate the competitive index for each round.

    starter

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Jeffrei,

    starter and i can attest that you wont get very far on here trying to push any system other than the monster swiss. Starter has tried to push the accelerated version and i have suggested two ideas.

    the first being a system where the top players are guaranteed to meet in the last or second last round, but i found it very difficult to actually get to work in practical terms.

    the second system is similar to the dividing into groups idea. My idea was that for say ballarat with 118 entries and seven rounds, that there would be eight players in each group and you would play each player in that group. So effectively 15 groups of 8. Ok that would be too many groups and prizes for this tourney. Therefore the groups could be sizes of 12 and use the swiss system in each mini group. the groups are divided based on acf rating.

    The top players would be in group A and so on down the draw.

    I didnt get anywhere with this idea but i am going to pursue it at my club

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Listen here right, if all you wanna bloody do is play payers of your own rating, then go find yourself a closed event, OK. Leave swiss system alone.

    And here's another thing, please, please what's with this 'ish' business? I hear people say, "oh I meet you at 8ish" or "4ish". I tell you I've heard of worse examples now, by jeffo, 'recentish'. Puh-lllzzzz....

    Actually, I reckon that deserves a whole new thread. Whaddya blokes reckon of 'ish' business? What's the worse specimens you've heard or read?

    AR

  14. #14
    CC Candidate Master jeffrei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Listen here right, if all you wanna bloody do is play payers (sic) of your own rating, then go find yourself a closed event
    At Box Hill you generally play people in your own rating group - that doesn't necessarily mean that they are particularly close to you in rating - could still be 100s of points difference, but normally not 500+ points so we avoid boring games.

    If what you're saying is true, then why is the Doeberl Cup so popular? All the evidence suggests that people don't like playing opponents who they have practically no chance of beating or who have practically no chance of beating them.The point about the Box Hill system is that it offers all the advantages of the Doeberl Cup format but from an administrative point of view it is almost as easy as a Monster Swiss. Furthermore, juniors who are performing hundreds of points above their rating still have the chance to 'play up'...they don't have to make the choice between playing in the u2000 division or the open division.

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    What? I didn't say anything mate. Anyways, I am a bit sceptical about all these so-called expert arguments that such and such a tourn is popular or not because of 'X' factor. It's all BS to me I reckon. I mean, when I was eager to play chess not so long ago, I couldn't give a flying f**k what format it was. I just wanted to play chess. That was it. I suspect it's true for most other people.

    AR

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