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  1. #76
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat
    You'd have to ask him, I'm not aware of the circumstance
    There was no mention of a religious group in the tournament flyers.
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  2. #77
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    I notice on the entry form for the event that cheques were payable to Outreach Chess and not the Gold Coast Chess Club or Gardiner Chess.
    As such they are far more than a sponsor, they are the organiser.

    Good point Bill. Peter asked to organise the events in return for the sponsorship. Peter was a longstanding club member, had filled many roles at the club and he had our confidence. We were delighted he wished to take on the responsibility.
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  3. #78
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    There was no mention of a religious group in the tournament flyers.
    OK Boris, I'll pass on your concerns. What exactly offended you so that we can tread carefully, if that's at all possible?
    Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat
    OK Boris, I'll pass on your concerns. What exactly offended you so that we can tread carefully, if that's at all possible?
    As I mentioned earlier, I'd be quite happy for the church to make a short speech if it omitted the prayer. I think that this is not unreasonable and the sponser would probably agree to it.
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  5. #80
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat
    You'd have to ask him, I'm not aware of the circumstance
    From what has been said the arrangement existed in advance (otherwise why would cheques have been payable to "Outreach Chess"?) but Boris says he didn't know there was a religious sponsor. [edited: see post 87]

    If this is correct then I do hope something can be learned about being upfront about the nature of sponsorship. I would have no problems playing in a tournament sponsored by a moderate and inclusive church and would be very grateful to them for their decision to sponsor chess. I'm sure in this case the failure to be upfront was not intentional.

    Well thats a problem you're going to have to learn to deal with. I think if you had a better grasp of the subject it would be less problematic for you.
    It's not my problem, it's a perception/marketing problem that the better Christians have because of the disgraceful beliefs and behaviour of some of the worse ones. The less cluey among my fellow unbelievers are very prone to tar all "Christians" with the same brush and a bit of product differentiation would avert this.

    You have never demonstrated a convincing grasp of any subject other than medicine so your insults are as feeble as ever.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 26-06-2006 at 12:33 AM.

  6. #81
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  7. #82
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    From what both Bill and Boris are saying the arrangement existed in advance (otherwise why would cheques have been payable to "Outreach Chess"?) but there was no hint dropped that this was a religious group.

    If this is correct then I do hope something can be learned about being upfront about the nature of sponsorship. I would have no problems playing in a tournament sponsored by a moderate and inclusive church and would be very grateful to them for their decision to sponsor chess. I'm sure in this case the failure to be upfront was not intentional.



    It's not my problem, it's a perception/marketing problem that the better Christians have because of the disgraceful beliefs and behaviour of some of the worse ones. The less cluey among my fellow unbelievers are very prone to tar all "Christians" with the same brush and a bit of product differentiation would avert this.
    This is genuinely a measured response, thanks.
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  8. #83
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat
    This is genuinely a measured response, thanks.
    I also commend your undertaking in post 78.

  9. #84
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Sorry to say, but I thought the situation is/was that Outreach Chess is organising the tournament on behalf of the Gold Coast Chess Club with GardinerChess as sponsor.

    Therefore, Outreach Chess is the organiser, not a 'sponsor' in the true sense of the word.

  10. #85
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Outreach Church was mentioned a dozen times Boris, I don't know how you could have missed it. I will mention it to Peter. My own idea was the prayer could be said in an antechamber for those who wished to partake. Maybe that would be an accpetable compromise
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  11. #86
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Sorry to say, but I thought the situation is/was that Outreach Chess is organising the tournament on behalf of the Gold Coast Chess Club with GardinerChess as sponsor.

    Therefore, Outreach Chess is the organiser, not a 'sponsor' in the true sense of the word.
    Gardiner Chess usually provides good sponsorship and I expect they would have also made a contribution.
    Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

  12. #87
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat
    Outreach Church was mentioned a dozen times Boris, I don't know how you could have missed it. I will mention it to Peter. My own idea was the prayer could be said in an antechamber for those who wished to partake. Maybe that would be an accpetable compromise
    Actually "Outreach Church" is not mentioned anywhere, but "Outreach Chess" is mentioned as often as you say. The entry form also clearly states that "Outreach Chess" is a ministry and that it is presenting the tournament. It doesn't explicitly state they are a sponsor but if they are presenting the event you'd expect they'd be supporting it to some degree - whether logistic or monetary. If you're going to a tournament that's explicitly presented by a ministry then this sort of thing shouldn't come as a surprise - although I do think Cat's compromise of having prayers outside the playing area is a very good idea.

    Based on the entry form I don't see any case to answer here in terms of the advance notice a religious group was involved so I'll go through and correct or add edits where my comments are incorrect.

    [edit: this has now been done.]
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 26-06-2006 at 12:44 AM.

  13. #88
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat
    Outreach Church was mentioned a dozen times Boris, I don't know how you could have missed it. I will mention it to Peter. My own idea was the prayer could be said in an antechamber for those who wished to partake. Maybe that would be an accpetable compromise
    If I had known that Outreach Church = Outreach Chess then I would agree with you. I did not and I don't think it is obvious at all.
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  14. #89
    Account Permanently Banned Arrogant-One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeL
    Um, I don't want to start a religious debate but (a) I don't think the incidence of homophobia amoung christians would be no higher than the general population. (b) A woman has access to birth control at a chemist (c) There are heaps of non-christian con people all to willing to part the gullible with their cash.
    Thanks for sorting Anti-Christ out for me George. Your well reasoned observations have now made him look foolish.

  15. #90
    Account Permanently Banned Arrogant-One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    I have no problem with sponsors making announcements. If he had advertised that the church meets wherever and whenever ... no problems. Giving a prayer is going to far though IMO.
    Hogwash! I had absolutely no problem with the prayer. The fact you are whinging about it shows that you are far too precious.

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