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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Junior Ratings Discourage Participation? Yes or no?

    Caveats:
    1. This thread could have been started in a number of other rooms
    2. Ratings-Bots, please don't swamp this thread until a direction has become clear. Don't misunderstand me, we will be wishing to hear your very excellent points later.

    I wish to test the water of a number of questions that have re-risen in Qld chess admin just recently.

    I would like to hear from any adult, of any rating who has specifically elected not to play a particular event because of being overun by under rated kiddies.

    I have more for Garv-bot, Bill-bot and Byrom-bot on this later.
    Last edited by Basil; 18-06-2006 at 01:32 AM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Is there going to be a poll added?
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    Is there going to be a poll added?
    Bill has offered if I want to retrace my steps by adding a poll. At this stage I think no, because it may distract from what I seek to learn.

    Eg, Let's say 90% of adults are fine with junior participation and any perceived ratings inequities, and 10% aren't.

    I want to hear from the 10%. That 10% is significant. If the 10% feel they are in such a minority, they might not feel compelled to discuss the issue.

    In short, I am only interested in the 10% or 50% at this stage.
    Last edited by Basil; 18-06-2006 at 01:34 AM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Yes, I have. I care about my rating. I don't understand why I care about it, but I do nevertheless.

    The last 7 round weekender I played in, I played vs 6 juniors. They took points off me (1 loss, 1 draw). I do not play under my rating. I performed under it yes, but not played under it. They are rapidly improving, and they deserve to go up the ratings charts. Good for them. Seriously. But I don't deserve to go down, and this is where the disincentive exists.

    In fact, 3 of them featured in the most-improved list shortly after. So I can take solace in that fact, but it doesn't give me my points back.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Thinking about this a bit more, I think there is another factor that can be more of an issue to adults than just losing a few extra rating points.

    The feeling that they are little chance to win a rating prize or similar due to under rated juniors. What I mean by this is the adult performs above their rating, does well and still doesnt even get close to winning a rating prize or similar due to what is in their opinion, a clearly under rated junior.

    I think also the tournament draw can sometimes not help in this matter because as soon as the adult loses to an under rated junior, they can be plunged into pairings that dont give them the opportunity to claw back the lost rating points.

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    I have also heard players mention the following reservation, although it does not apply to me.

    The young junior, who is twitchy, has a runny nose, barely looks at the board, shuffles to much in their seat etc can be distracting.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Fair enough - I have heard it too. However I would like to limit my findings in this thrtead to qualitative data that directly results in non entry. I appreciate you acknowledged that with your post.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  8. #8
    CC International Master
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    Oh and the little buggers always touch their pieces and say "Adjust" even if they are in the middle of the square.

    If I copped a free feel as often as they do, I'd be slapped silly or locked up in jail. (maybe I should say adjust first?)
    Last edited by bergil; 18-06-2006 at 06:08 AM.
    No this is silly, the whole premise is silly and very badly written. I'm the senior officer here and I've not had a funny line yet so I'm stopping it.

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  9. #9
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    1. Personally, I do not care what rating anyone has. In fact, I would rather see ratings abandonned altogether in favor of grades just like every other sport.

    2. In my club, I estimate that 30 to 50% HATE playing juniors because they believe they are underated. The remainder mearly dislike it.

    3. Personally I dislike it because of how my club mates are upset to varying degrees, by having to play underated juniors. Certainly, if juniors were not generally precieved as ridiculously under rated, the players I know would not be upset at the thought of playing juniors.

    4. Personally I prefer not to play juniors because I feel ambivalent when I lose but quite sad when I win. That is why I play the in the Major at Doeberl rather than the Minor where one will meet many juniors.

  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Ambivalent; well, yes and no
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  11. #11
    CC International Master Rhubarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    I do not play under my rating.
    Bzzt.
    I performed under it yes, but not played under it.
    Bzzt.
    They are rapidly improving, and they deserve to go up the ratings charts. Good for them. Seriously. But I don't deserve to go down,
    Bzzt.
    and this is where the disincentive exists.
    Bzzt. (well maybe this last one is subjective).

    Oops, just read the intro. I suppose I'm one of them despised ratings-bots.
    Last edited by Rhubarb; 18-06-2006 at 07:41 PM.

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Greg, what's your point above?
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Greg,

    I made a very similar post to yours and decided to delete. This is not an attack thread, yet but a subjective feel thread, so to speak.

    Howard is just gathering info, so we can wait a couple of days

    It does seem however that Howard is not getting much of a reply

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    I should probably clarify that this thread isn't heading into combatitive territory. Its heading into education & marketing territory.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  15. #15
    CC International Master Rhubarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Duggan
    Greg, what's your point above?
    Well since you asked, HD...

    All rating systems are a statistical reflection of the player's performance. In 99% of cases this is a true reflection of the player's strength [edit: relative to other players in that system] (no matter what the player, confounded by his/her ego, believes). There are cases due to pooling where, yes, people can be underrated. I believe that Bill has gone to a great deal of effort to remove these pooling effects.
    Last edited by Rhubarb; 18-06-2006 at 08:00 PM.

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