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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    The Scandinavian - aka Centre Counter

    OK, let's go. Certainly better respected than The Beloved Tromp!, but eyed with suspicion still in some quarters.

    Ian Rogers has been known to wheel it out, although I am not sure how recently and I note that Mouthun Ly had a fine win with it in recent times.

    It's as old as the hills and has stood the test of time at all levels, although is not often seen at the very highest.

    Like the Tromp, proponents don't have to study reams of theory up to move 20. Its excellent for lazy learners. As David Flude suggested with the Tromp, one of the ways to deal with it is "stodge".

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Dug this out from Kevin Bonham back in March 2004.

    Aaaah, but those are two entirely different openings. The Centre Counter (1.e4 d5) is a lame opening played by patzers who love getting their queens kicked around the board, but the Scandinavian (1.e4 d5) is a lively and vigorous defence with a sound theoretical basis.

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Dug this out from Kevin Bonham back in March 2004.
    You're a muckraker, Gray - in fact come to think of it, so is Bonham. I appreciate his joke - I always refer to it as the Scandinavian.

    2. ... Qxd5 is a thing, ergo Kevin's jab at Queen kicking, its certainly playable. I'm a 2 ... Nf6 guy, myself - every time.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    I see that you didn't need to be asked twice Howard.

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    I see that you didn't need to be asked twice Howard.
    No. I have already fessed that modesty is not my strongest suit. Impetuousness is a close second. I'm aware that with age, I am mellowing in those two respects and more.

    The natural conclusion of course is, when when I was a younger man, WHAT WAS HE ON?

  6. #6
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Garvin saved me from telling my little joke again.

    Against 2...Nf6 I just play 3.Nc3 transposing to the 2.Nc3 line against Alekhine's. That gives me a complete answer against Alekhine's and an answer to a common Scandinavian line for the price of one.

    After 2...Qxd5 I have often played 3.Nf3. The drawback to this is that there is a known drawing line against it, but the average club hack who wheels out ...d5 doesn't know the theory and trots out the same moves as against Nc3. Bzzt. Wrong.
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  7. #7
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    The Possum

    1.e4 d5 2.f3 ! that normally stops the scandinavians in their tracks......the versatility of the possum!

  8. #8
    CC International Master
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    scandinavian

    the lines with

    1. e4 d5
    2. exd Nf6 used to be great patzer crushing lines for black. Alas the white players have come up with lines that work. Read the article by Guy West.

    Also I have seen a couple of recent correspondence games where a line given in several books as OK for black in the Jadoul Gambit is great for white.

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    The only line that really gives me the chips is 3. d4

    David, where can I find that article?

  10. #10
    CC FIDE Master Phil Bourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidflude
    Read the article by Guy West.
    What article? Where can we read it?
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  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Against 2...Nf6 I just play 3.Nc3 transposing to the 2.Nc3 line against Alekhine's.
    Kevin, how do you assess the posi at that stage. Approximnately equal surely? If you while can 'claim' a complete answer, surely it is black who can be satisfied by achieving close equality so early?

  12. #12
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Duggan
    Kevin, how do you assess the posi at that stage. Approximnately equal surely? If you while can 'claim' a complete answer, surely it is black who can be satisfied by achieving close equality so early?
    That depends on if black knows how to play the resulting position or not. Club-level opponents typically don't, and if White gets an edge, White tends to be able to play for a win from a position of absolute safety.

    In club level play it is not that important whether an opening theoretically leads to an edge or a roughly even position. It is more important to be able to get positions you understand and are comfortable with.
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  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    I'd agree with that. Both sides can be reasonably happy. I think white has the smidgiest advnatge. Black on the other hand, generally has white out of his 'pet' e4 positions - and all within momets of kick off.

    All other things being equal of course. IE strength.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  14. #14
    Account Permanently Banned Arrogant-One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    1.e4 d5 2.f3 ! that normally stops the scandinavians in their tracks......the versatility of the possum!
    Is that real openning Axiom? What titled players have played it?

  15. #15
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant-One
    Is that real openning Axiom? What titled players have played it?
    My database has a game with Reuben Fine playing it in 1931. Though he played the first two moves the other way around.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

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