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Thread: weird endgames

  1. #1
    CC FIDE Master
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    weird endgames

    This endagme is according t0o Fritz a dead easy win for white.

    But then I got the computer to play it and it could only draw it!!

    FEN Viewer


    wHITE HAS JUST moved the rook to its spot. So it is black to move.

  2. #2
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    I'm thinking this looks like one of those blockading draws where the two pawns can't advance because the enemy king position is so strong, eg here Ra2+ Kf1 (Re2 Ra3=) Rb2. Maybe Fritz thinks it's a win because it's 2 pawns up and sees that it can stay 2 pawns up with best play.

  3. #3
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    the only way i can see something happening for white..is to get the white rook to h4 or h5...after the king loses his position..(1 or 2 infront of pawns), just move up king, using the pawns as defense...gradually pushing up the pawns...and possibily..mate with rook and king since black king has to stay somewhere near back rank to stop promotion

  4. #4
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    White can sacrifive the g pawn to cut off the black king. Should be a win for white.
    e.g. Ke3-e4 at some stage, and ufter Kxg3 Rg8+

  5. #5
    CC Candidate Master EZBeet's Avatar
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    Looks to me like black draws because after ...Ra2+ the white king must drop back to it's first rank. This gives black what Nimzovitch called "the 7th rank absolute" which means he has a rook on the 7th confining the enemy king.

  6. #6
    CC International Master Rhubarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    White can sacrifive the g pawn to cut off the black king. Should be a win for white.
    e.g. Ke3-e4 at some stage, and ufter Kxg3 Rg8+
    Yes, but White can't achieve that in this exact position.

    1...Ra2+ 2.Re2 Ra3 and if say 3.Re8 Rf3+!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirty
    Yes, but White can't achieve that in this exact position.

    1...Ra2+ 2.Re2 Ra3 and if say 3.Re8 Rf3+!
    Yes, it's a draw

  8. #8
    CC Candidate Master Sutek's Avatar
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    The position is definitely a draw.
    Well I did have some help from the 6 piece tablebases

    If anyone is interested out of the 17 legal moves for black there are actually 8 that draw!

  9. #9
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    I am interested!

    Could you list those 8 moves? And where do you get hold of an endgame tablebase? Fritz doesn't seem to come with one.

    Thanks to everyone who had a look. It is the world of controversy, endless checks and dancing kings: the endgame

  10. #10
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    come to think of it

    Suppose that it is white to move instead. Is it still a draw then ?

  11. #11
    CC Candidate Master Sutek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qpawn
    Could you list those 8 moves? And where do you get hold of an endgame tablebase? Fritz doesn't seem to come with one.

    Thanks to everyone who had a look. It is the world of controversy, endless checks and dancing kings: the endgame
    1. = (0.00): 1...Ra2+
    2. = (0.00): 1...Ra4
    3. = (0.00): 1...Ra1
    4. = (0.00): 1...Rb5
    5. = (0.00): 1...Rc5
    6. = (0.00): 1...Ra6
    7. = (0.00): 1...Ra7
    8. = (0.00): 1...Ra8
    9. +- (#31): 1...Rh5
    10. +- (#31): 1...Kh3
    11. +- (#29): 1...Kf5
    12. +- (#27): 1...Rd5
    13. +- (#24): 1...Rf5
    14. +- (#17): 1...Kh5
    15. +- (#10): 1...Rg5
    16. +- (#9): 1...Ra3
    17. +- (#3): 1...Re5

    Fritz (depends on the version) comes with tablebases but not 6 piece.
    But you can get a full set (Nalimov Tablebases) from..

    Chess Assistant (Advanced Chess Data)
    http://store.convekta.com/shop_model...&sView=Catalog

    or

    Chessbase (Endgame Turbo)
    http://www.chessbase.com/shop/produc...tz&user=&coin=

  12. #12
    CC Candidate Master Sutek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qpawn
    Suppose that it is white to move instead. Is it still a draw then ?
    Yes it's still a draw.

    1. = (0.00): 1.Ke2
    2. = (0.00): 1.Rc3
    3. = (0.00): 1.Rb3
    4. = (0.00): 1.Rd3
    5. = (0.00): 1.Re1
    6. = (0.00): 1.Re4
    7. = (0.00): 1.Re5
    8. = (0.00): 1.Re6
    9. = (0.00): 1.Re7
    10. = (0.00): 1.Re8
    11. = (0.00): 1.Ke1
    12. = (0.00): 1.Re2
    13. = (0.00): 1.Kf1
    14. = (0.00): 1.Kg1
    15. = (0.00): 1.Kg2
    16. = (0.00): 1.f5
    17. -+ (-#20): 1.Rf3
    18. -+ (-#13): 1.Ra3

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qpawn
    wHITE HAS JUST moved the rook to its spot. So it is black to move.
    Where was the rook before? Moving it to e3 probably threw away the win.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  14. #14
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    have to think

    I might try to find out where I got the position from. I think that it was from one ofmy games but I am not sure.

  15. #15
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    This site http://chess.jaet.org/endings/ has all 5 and some 6 men tablebases (including yours) which are able to be viewed on the site.

    You can also generate the tablebases yourself, or download them, see http://www.aarontay.per.sg/Winboard/egtb.html for information on this.

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