take backs (sf 2006 Australian Internet Junior Chess Championships Discussion)

[Phil Bourke]

it seems this is going to have its passionate supporters on both sides.

I don't care which it is, as long as it is fair and easy to implement and asking kids to decide when to allow take backs and when not seems fraught with problems.

No takebacks !! Simple and effective. Otherwise you will end up in the situation of players hanging a piece claiming mouseslip, and then moving another piece That is one hell of a mouseslip, picking up another piece rather than the intended one
In my time playing on the net, I have never had a mouseslip that wasn't my fault In one case, I had picked up the queen to move, and then realised that it was an error, and instead of placing her back on the original square immediately, I began looking at the position again, and when I did place her down, in what I thought was her original position, I had moved her one square along the diagonal, making a legal move and a complete blunder. I resigned and severely chastised myself for my stupid mistake and began another game.
Every other solution just leads to more work for your hardworking team, so make it a simple rule, no takebacks. If it is a genuine mouseslip, they will soon get a better mouse.
It is the equivalent of not enforcing touch move OTB, you will soon see a player try to take advantage of it by picking up a piece, waving it around like a magic wand, then placing it back to pick up another piece. Good players will pick up the fact that the first piece picked up is now on a different square

[four four two]

I cant believe there is even a thread about this.
"Touched piece" is one of the fundamental principles of tournament play.
If you make an error in piece selection you should just live with it.
Live and learn.

[jenni]

I cant believe there is even a thread about this.
"Touched piece" is one of the fundamental principles of tournament play.
If you make an error in piece selection you should just live with it.
Live and learn.

Who is talking about piece selection? Of course you can't change pieces.

[four four two]

Some errors in internet chess are due to people moving the cursor on to a piece they didnt intend to move. Obviously once you have touched a piece and if its a legal move then you must move that piece.

[pax]

I cant believe there is even a thread about this.
"Touched piece" is one of the fundamental principles of tournament play.
If you make an error in piece selection you should just live with it.
Live and learn.

Have you ever gone to play a move with your knight over the board, and accidentally knocked the king with your elbow?? Did you move the king?

I have seen this kind of thing many times and I have never seen a player enforce such an obviously accidental touch. I think it's a shame for serious chess games to be decided by a total accident such as this.

Mouseslips are akin to this kind of accident, only more common.

[arosar]

Btw, this here thread isn't about the "touch piece" concept. We're talking about mouse slips and how to handle them effectively. So no need to hyperventilate over moving one piece then claiming slip and moving another. I mean just think. With both sides having mate in one, W on g7 and Black on g2 and Black is to move. Black slips and drops the Q on g3 instead of g2. Should he lose? It's unconscionable!

AR

[shaun]

The other approach is of course to NEVER ask for a take back. If a mistake occurs be responsible for it and live with the consequences.

[Garvinator]

The other approach is of course to NEVER ask for a take back. If a mistake occurs be responsible for it and live with the consequences.

oh come on Shaun, cant expect that to happen in internet chess when it doesnt happen in real life

[Libby]

Wow - look what I started

My position (much as I think people think I'm on the other side of the fence) is to have no takebacks - tough luck.

It is different to touch move but can be similar to other OTB situations.

I was watching a game at the Juniors in Adelaide a few years ago. A player was in a winning position, offered a Queen swap, wrote down a move first ( ) so the intention was clear in both the play and on paper. But had two bishops on adjacent squares. One could make the recapture and the other - obviously - could not. Player picks up (not knocks) wrong Bishop.

Player was only 8 or 9 at the time (and not mine BTW), was obviously shattered by the mistake, but took a deep breath and played on and lost graciously.

The problem I have - and what generated this thread - is a "grey" position that exists at the moment. A group of players are operating with a set of "subjective" conditions. Although I would rather we had no takebacks, I can accept a different interpretation so long as the climate allows for consistency.

Consistent application of a rule/playing condition can be accepted by all players - even if they don't always reap an advantage from it.

BTW - we had one ACT player struggle all the way through Round 1 after a mouseslip lost a piece and he managed to pull off a win. I don't think it occurred to him at the time to ask for a takeback.

[dunwannapost]

Miona Ikeda vs Susan Sheng

isnt that ACT v VIC? has that game occurred already?

[jenni]

isnt that ACT v VIC? has that game occurred already?

yes it was played early.

[dunwannapost]

The Organisers, Alan Goldsmith and Alex Saint have decided that there will be no takebacks for future rounds and events.

- Alex Saint (through nswrep)

[jenni]

This seems a very sensible decision and will take away a potential conflict point.

[Libby]

This seems a very sensible decision and will take away a potential conflict point.

I hope it's what the player's actually want since we have run about creating a storm for them. I'm not sure if their perspective would put the storm in a tea-cup or a crock-pot

(Just another little barefoot and in the kitchen reference for my good buddy fg7 )

[Vlad]

In one of the recent issues of "New in Chess" there was an article about "mouse slips" OTB - what different people do when they accidentally touch a piece.

Bobby Fisher when was young had experience playing some other GM. Deep in thought he accidentally touched one of his pawns. Suddenly he realized what happened and without showing any emotions, made a loosing move by that pawn. The author of the article was claiming that this experience made him even tougher for the future games.