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  1. #1
    CC Candidate Master Javier Gil's Avatar
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    It took Kasparov some long minutes to solve this!

    FEN Viewer


    Apparently, this position was shown to Kasparov and it took him many long minutes to work out the solution.
    The position is reached after black's 4th move. It can be done in 3 moves or 5, that's easy, but how do you reach the position after black's 4th move? that's a little harder!

    Good luck!

    By the way, if you know the answer, don't post it, just say that you do and let others think about it for a while.
    Last edited by Javier Gil; 10-02-2004 at 09:27 PM.
    International Master and Professional Chess Coach.
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  2. #2
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Got it. Took me ages though (over half an hour)

  3. #3
    CC Rookie booboo's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    OK I've thought about it for a while...and a while...and a while. I can get it in 3 moves, in 31/2 moves, in 41/2 moves and 5 moves, BUT NOT IN 4 MOVES.
    I might just ask Kasparov

  4. #4
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    That's the annoying thing about it. 3.5 moves is soooooo easy.

    A small hint: don't try just playing moves and looking at random for a solution. Try to think logically about what each side's moves, as a whole, must include or may include.

  5. #5
    CC Candidate Master jase's Avatar
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    Well it took me a couple of minutes, but I don't think I'm quite ready to take on Kaspy just yet. To be honest I usually suck at these sorts of puzzles.

    Good to see you're still taking an interest in the local scene here Javier...hope all is well and with some luck we will both be in Menorca later in the year

  6. #6
    CC International Master JGB's Avatar
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    Does it have to be logical play. I wouldnt think so or white would not have lost a B for a pawn. I found it easy in just a few minutes, im thinking i may have the problem not correctly understood, but i have the position after 4 moves.

    Im normally nothing special at these questions but I am waiting for the solution to see if I was correct.

    Thanks, James.

  7. #7
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGB
    Does it have to be logical play.
    No, any legal moves will do so long as you get the position after Black's 4th move. Unique solution AFAICT.

  8. #8
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    Depends how you look at it; and experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    That's the annoying thing about it. 3.5 moves is soooooo easy.

    A small hint: don't try just playing moves and looking at random for a solution. Try to think logically about what each side's moves, as a whole, must include or may include.
    Kevin

    Michael Kontorovich solved it for me in 23 seconds. I went gasp until he told me he saw it in a book in 1972. Seems that Michael spent 6 years at the Tchigorin palace in St Petersberg being trained by Taimanov.

    The 'mentor' from the Fischer_random was completely unable to make headway; but his 10 year-old-junior got close in 10 minutes.
    Our web-master is a Physicist and saw the theme of the solution by working out the 'parity' implication of thinking c6 and e6 and capture were moves that had to be played.

    Booboo had given up waiting for Kasparov to call.

    starter

  9. #9
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    Our web-master is a Physicist and saw the theme of the solution by working out the 'parity' implication of thinking c6 and e6 and capture were moves that had to be played.
    Yes - although this is not immediately obvious. One notices quickly that there must be either four black pawn moves or two, because otherwise a black piece would have moved once, which is impossible. But then one has to eliminate the four black pawn move possibility. In theory, either c6 or e6 could be the original d-pawn, with either the original c-pawn or the original e-pawn moving twice then getting taken. But in practice, this can't be made to work. I spent far too much time working through this, but at least I satisfied myself that the solution is unique in the process.

    There should be more than enough hints now for anyone still struggling.

  10. #10
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Okay Call me thick. I still have not found the answer.
    GO THE DRAGONS!
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    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

  11. #11
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tparker
    Okay Call me thick. I still have not found the answer.
    well I wouldn't be to worried if I were you. i tend to find these sort of positions rather nasty at the best of times and quite removed from actual chess play. btw, is someone going to post the solution in case someone wants the answer?

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Have youse tried your nuggin at the de Groot problem?

    AR

  13. #13
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Have youse tried your nuggin at the de Groot problem?

    AR
    no what's that? and it's a "noggin" isn't it?

  14. #14
    CC International Master JGB's Avatar
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    Javier, are you going to post a reply for those who havent got it?

  15. #15
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGB
    Javier, are you going to post a reply for those who havent got it?
    I guess I'm going to have to work it now so some answers actually get posted

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