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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    Now this is correct. It is also well-known that ELO = (BCF x 8) +600 = 2320

    .

    So Brian, have you ever had a Fide rating above 2300? As for BCF I have never played any events in England so i have no idea what BCF rating of 215 is equivalent too.

    Anyway, I am pretty sure Stawski never had a BCF of 215..yet got the title as well

  2. #152
    CC Candidate Master jase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    As for BCF I have never played any events in England so i have no idea what BCF rating of 215 is equivalent too.
    Michael,
    Brian just supplied you with the commonly used forumale for converting BCF ratings to ELO ratings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    But what is the point? ...
    So what are you trying to say?
    Ducks and drakes. (Duck theason!)Are you evading the point or is it simply that others like Amiel and I can read the implication but you cannot?
    You claim a BCF rating of 215 (2320 ELO equivalent)
    Peter says that in a relevant BCF Magazine, a report of a match in which you competed appears, identifying only two players with +200 BCF ratings on your team. Neither of those players bore the name Brian Jones. The implication would be that your rating was below 200 BCF, at least at that time. N'est-il pas?
    Let me take you by the hand
    And lead you through the streets of London ....

    What it has to do with the price of eggs is beyond me. Or irrelevant. Both?
    Last edited by jase; 02-11-2006 at 03:15 PM.

  3. #153
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    Anyway, I am pretty sure Stawski never had a BCF of 215..yet got the title as well
    In the first year of the Oceamia Zonal there was no limit on the numbers of titles awarded. So it was only necessary to score 66.67% or 50%.
    I think Nik Stawski, Kerry Stead, Grant Szuveges and others scored 50% but they keep pretty quiet about it!

    In subsequent years, the number of titles was limited to 1 x IM and 2 x FM titles. These titles have been less controversial.

    For 2007 there are also 2 x new CM titles (I think)

    If everyone turned up to play (including you Michael) then maybe the titles would not be quite so soft.

  4. #154
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase
    Peter says that in a relevant BCF Magazine, a report of a match in which you competed appears, identifying only two players with +200 BCF ratings on your team. Neither of those players bore the name Brian Jones. The implication would be that your rating was below 200 BCF, at least at that time. N'est-il pas?
    Ha-ha so let's cut to the chase.

    My BCF rating for 1986/87 was 199.

    My BCF Rating for 1987/88 was 215 (the new list was published in September 1987)

    Isn't it obvious that a new list was published sometime after July 1987 based on my actual performance over the previous 12 months!

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    Ha-ha so let's cut to the chase.

    My BCF rating for 1986/87 was 199.

    My BCF Rating for 1987/88 was 215 (the new list was published in September 1987)

    Isn't it obvious that a new list was published sometime after July 1987 based on my actual performance over the previous 12 months!
    This is great. Pity that after coming to Australia you did not play for the Australian Olympic Team

  6. #156
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    The 32 players rated 220 and over on the BCF grading list appears on page 561 of British Chess Magazine December 1986

    The next reference is on page 204 of British Chess Magazine May 1987 which states

    "The BCF Grading Administrator John Povey resigned from the post with effect from Mid April 1987"

    The next reference is on page 542 of British Chess Magazine December 1987 which states

    "The BCF Grading co-ordinator Jeff Ing left this post at short notice at the end of October so further delay seems inevitable in the production of the rating list"

    The next reference is on page 454 of British Chess Magazine October 1988 when the BCF grading list covered the period 1 May 1987 - 30 April 1988 and was published on 1st September 1988.

    There are 36 players (mainly GM's) listed down to Sadler at 221.
    BCM published all above 220.
    The full list is 211 pages.
    On the same page is listed some titled players all IM or GM 220 and below - Bellin, Large, Wells 220, Basman and Hartston 219, Lane 217, Keene 216, Whiteley 214.

    So a player rated at the end of 1986 remained with the same rating throughout the whole of 1987 and until September 1988 when the next list was produced.

    I agree with Brian that a 215 BCF rating is an impressive rating - (Gary Lane was 214 in August 2000).

    I agree with Brian that a 215 BCF rating is equivalent to FIDE 2320.

    3 of the 6 members of the 1986 Australian Olympiad team had FIDE ratings below 2320.

    Michael - All the earlier FIDE rating lists from 1975 are on the CD Chess is Chess by Chess Informant or of course lists were produced in each of the earlier issues of Chess Informant (96 volumes to date) - handy references which trace back to when any player first had a FIDE rating.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter_parr
    The 32 players rated 220 and over on the BCF grading list appears on page 561 of British Chess Magazine December 1986

    The next reference is on page 204 of British Chess Magazine May 1987 which states

    "The BCF Grading Administrator John Povey resigned from the post with effect from Mid April 1987"

    The next reference is on page 542 of British Chess Magazine December 1987 which states

    "The BCF Grading co-ordinator Jeff Ing left this post at short notice at the end of October so further delay seems inevitable in the production of the rating list"

    The next reference is on page 454 of British Chess Magazine October 1988 when the BCF grading list covered the period 1 May 1987 - 30 April 1988 and was published on 1st September 1988.

    There are 36 players (mainly GM's) listed down to Sadler at 221.
    BCM published all above 220.
    The full list is 211 pages.
    On the same page is listed some titled players all IM or GM 220 and below - Bellin, Large, Wells 220, Basman and Hartston 219, Lane 217, Keene 216, Whiteley 214.

    So a player rated at the end of 1986 remained with the same rating throughout the whole of 1987 and until September 1988 when the next list was produced.

    I agree with Brian that a 215 BCF rating is an impressive rating - (Gary Lane was 214 in August 2000).

    I agree with Brian that a 215 BCF rating is equivalent to FIDE 2320.

    3 of the 6 members of the 1986 Australian Olympiad team had FIDE ratings below 2320.

    Michael - All the earlier FIDE rating lists from 1975 are on the CD Chess is Chess by Chess Informant or of course lists were produced in each of the earlier issues of Chess Informant (96 volumes to date) - handy references which trace back to when any player first had a FIDE rating.
    So when exactly was Brian 215? what is the number/ID of that Particular rating list? It is really amazing that he was rated above Keene,Basman etc.

  8. #158
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Peter, sorry to spoil your fun but is Brian Jones listed in the September 1988 BCF rating list, and if so with what rating?

  9. #159
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    Kevin, if you read Peter's message carefully you will see that he is implying that Brian was not in the list. Peter is saying that everybody 220+ was listed + some titled players below 220 mark. Brian was neither titled nor 220+, which means he was not in the list.

    I would think the discrepancy is that Brian claimed that his rating was published in 1987, while Peter found that there was no rating update in that year.

  10. #160
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drug
    Kevin, if you read Peter's message carefully you will see that he is implying that Brian was not in the list. Peter is saying that everybody 220+ was listed + some titled players below 220 mark. Brian was neither titled nor 220+, which means he was not in the list.
    But he may well have been in the full list (211 pages) at 215 which would, if true, not contradict anything Brian is saying except for the issue of exactly when Brian had that rating.

    (In writing I was assuming Peter had the full list, which was a silly assumption on my part given it is 211 pp long so presumably would have been mentioned in passing and not in full in BCM. )

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    But he may well have been in the full list (211 pages) at 215 which would, if true, not contradict anything Brian is saying except for the issue of exactly when Brian had that rating.

    (In writing I was assuming Peter had the full list, which was a silly assumption on my part given it is 211 pp long so presumably would have been mentioned in passing and not in full in BCM. )
    I just wonder if there is a Forum in England that is similar to ours. If there is - we can post a query over there...surey someone in GB will be able to confirm the 1987 rating

  12. #162
    CC International Master Carl Gorka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    I just wonder if there is a Forum in England that is similar to ours. If there is - we can post a query over there...surey someone in GB will be able to confirm the 1987 rating
    I have asked....
    I've never been so broke that I couldn't leave town

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  13. #163
    CC International Master Kerry Stead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    In the first year of the Oceamia Zonal there was no limit on the numbers of titles awarded. So it was only necessary to score 66.67% or 50%.
    I think Nik Stawski, Kerry Stead, Grant Szuveges and others scored 50% but they keep pretty quiet about it!

    In subsequent years, the number of titles was limited to 1 x IM and 2 x FM titles. These titles have been less controversial.
    Minor point Brian, but I did not play in the 1999 Zonal. I did however play in the 2001 Zonal, however I did not recieve a title due to the modifcations to the regulations following the 1999 zonal.

    Would a lot of this bickering be solved by simply posting the crosstables for the 1999 event (both Open & Womens)? Let people judge for themselves. If someone (Bill perhaps) has the SP files, it would make things much easier, or if someone has a quick way of generating a postable crosstable from a pgn file, then I would happily post this myself.

  14. #164
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    Post #42...

  15. #165
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drug
    Post #42...
    When players like Johansen score 5.5/9 and Solomon score 4/9, you know that it was a hard fought tournament, regardless of what the ratings tell you.
    meep meep

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