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  1. #1
    CC International Master
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    playing in a FIDE rated event in Sydney

    Somehow I find Sydney has a very few tournaments which are FIDE rated. On top of that (a huge surprise at least for myself) I have found that some of them are closed!?

    Below is my experience. I have looked in the internet and found that the earliest FIDE rated event is the North Sydney chess club championship starting on the 14-th of February. I have contacted Norm Greenwood asking if I could play in this event. He was very sceptical if the club will let me play. The reasons are as follows.

    1) I live in Rosebery which does not have any chess club around. The closest one is probably St George (about 20 minutes drive), the next one is North Sydney (about 25 minutes drive). So nominally I do not live in the area of the North Sydney club.

    2) According to Norm, to play in the championship one has to be a member for years. I am not a member of this club because I have not played there, even though I have been coming there quite often in the last year.

    3) They are worried that I will steal the trophy from them. Frankly speaking I do not care about the trophy I just want to play in the FIDE rated event.

    I think pretty much what they want is that I play in some other event in the North Sydney before I play the championship. It looks to me (even though the club has players rated higher than me) most likely if I play I will be the highest rated. Asking me to play in some kind of pre-qualifier seems to be at least unfair.

    I think this story is a good explanation why 2200+ chessplayers do not play in Sydney. They are being discouraged by organizers.

  2. #2
    CC International Master Kerry Stead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drug
    Somehow I find Sydney has a very few tournaments which are FIDE rated. On top of that (a huge surprise at least for myself) I have found that some of them are closed!?

    Below is my experience. I have looked in the internet and found that the earliest FIDE rated event is the North Sydney chess club championship starting on the 14-th of February. I have contacted Norm Greenwood asking if I could play in this event. He was very sceptical if the club will let me play. The reasons are as follows.

    1) I live in Rosebery which does not have any chess club around. The closest one is probably St George (about 20 minutes drive), the next one is North Sydney (about 25 minutes drive). So nominally I do not live in the area of the North Sydney club.

    2) According to Norm, to play in the championship one has to be a member for years. I am not a member of this club because I have not played there, even though I have been coming there quite often in the last year.

    3) They are worried that I will steal the trophy from them. Frankly speaking I do not care about the trophy I just want to play in the FIDE rated event.

    I think pretty much what they want is that I play in some other event in the North Sydney before I play the championship. It looks to me (even though the club has players rated higher than me) most likely if I play I will be the highest rated. Asking me to play in some kind of pre-qualifier seems to be at least unfair.

    I think this story is a good explanation why 2200+ chessplayers do not play in Sydney. They are being discouraged by organizers.
    Vlad, there's a simple explanation - its a CLUB CHAMPIONSHIP ... its not intended to be an open event, its intended to find the best player in a tournament of player from the club. That it is FIDE rated is incidental to the intention of the tournament.

    So you aren't being discouraged because organisers don't want 2200+ players playing in FIDE rated events, rather you are being discouraged because you are/have not been a member of the club.

    If you think about things though, most FIDE rated events in Australia are either club championship type events, or large weekenders (Doeberl Cup, NSW Open, etc), as well as the annual Australian Championship or Open, so there is a general lack of FIDE rated events in the country.

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Stead
    Vlad, there's a simple explanation - its a CLUB CHAMPIONSHIP ... its not intended to be an open event, its intended to find the best player in a tournament of player from the club. That it is FIDE rated is incidental to the intention of the tournament.

    So you aren't being discouraged because organisers don't want 2200+ players playing in FIDE rated events, rather you are being discouraged because you are/have not been a member of the club.

    If you think about things though, most FIDE rated events in Australia are either club championship type events, or large weekenders (Doeberl Cup, NSW Open, etc), as well as the annual Australian Championship or Open, so there is a general lack of FIDE rated events in the country.
    Why can't he just play and be ineligible for the title? Then everyone wins. We do it a lot up here.. I remember the QLD Juniors in 1999 when Zong-Yuan Zhao played, got 8/8 and Matthew Sonter won the title on 6/8.
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  4. #4
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    Why can't he just play and be ineligible for the title? Then everyone wins. We do it a lot up here.. I remember the QLD Juniors in 1999 when Zong-Yuan Zhao played, got 8/8 and Matthew Sonter won the title on 6/8.
    Possibly because it is the North Sydney Club Championship and North Sydney is running the event for the benefit of its members.
    Also his results against actual North Sydney members vying for the Club Championship could affect the outcome of the competition. Now it could be argued that his results are just totally ignored, but it could be argued that doing so would serve no useful, purpose to the Nth Sydney club or its members.
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  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Possibly because it is the North Sydney Club Championship and North Sydney is running the event for the benefit of its members.
    Also his results against actual North Sydney members vying for the Club Championship could affect the outcome of the competition. Now it could be argued that his results are just totally ignored, but it could be argued that doing so would serve no useful, purpose to the Nth Sydney club or its members.
    Sounds like snobbish segregation to me. Not a unique practice in NSW though.
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  6. #6
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    Sounds like snobbish segregation to me. Not a unique practice in NSW though.
    It is strictly speaking segregation but it is not snobbish. Perhaps you are advocating the abolishment of all clubs and every event be run as an open. No one said their weren't some negatives to clubs. But all models have their shortcomings. If you want to argue that club should not run closed championships then do so. But you have to come up with a better argument than name-calling.

    Also the other event that Vlad was asked to play in didn't sound like a qualification event to me, it just sound like a requirement that the championship participants be bona fide club members and not people who pay their membership to just play in the championship.

    To my mind North Sydney has a benefit of membership which is that their championship is run as a FIDE rated event. This should encourage players to become members of the club to enjoy this benefit. It is up to each individual to decide as to whether this benefit is attractive enough warrant membership.

    Organisers of opens should bear in mind that there is a market for FIDE rated events in the Sydney area.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Stead
    So you aren't being discouraged because organisers don't want 2200+ players playing in FIDE rated events, rather you are being discouraged because you are/have not been a member of the club.
    What does it mean a member of a club? My definition - it is somebody who comes to a club from time to time. Your definition is pretty much who has played at least one normal-time-control event in the club. I believe i have been coming to the club more often than many other "members", but I have never played there because it just does not make sense for me to play. I do not want to play in the events where to perform at my strength I have to score 90%. It is just a waste of my time.

    I believe while low-rated players like you, Kerry, and others make all chess-organizing decisions in Australia, there is no future of chess in this country.

    This will never happen say in Europe or America.

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drug
    I believe while low-rated players like you, Kerry, and others make all chess-organizing decisions in Australia, there is no future of chess in this country.
    The only reason that I, a 1400-odd rated player, am President, treasurer, promoter, and God knows what else at my local club, is that nobody else seems particularly interested in doing the work required. I'm a choleric by nature, a do-er, so when a chess club needed to be organised I said "I'll do it". I expect that most other clubs and organising bodies are in the same boat.

    So step up and offer your services ... and if you are already an organiser/administrator/helper, then I apologise in advance against any perceived slur against your character.

    Most people seem to think that everything in chess should revolve around the needs of the top-rated players. Sorry to disillusion you, but most of it needs to revolve around the needs of the bulk of the players, and that means us 1400-1800 types. There should be premier events for the top players ... and there are ... so I can't see the problem there. I think a club has every right to determine what suits it best, after all, it exists for the benefit of its members. What's a member? Its what that club says is a member, no more, no less. If they say you have to stand on your head for two weeks to be a member, so be it.
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  9. #9
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    We have made a similar sort of rule at Belconnen Chess Club for our "Premier". Most of our events (including our club championships) are run as Open swisses and are open to anyone at all (even interstate, although I suspect they couldn't win the Club title, although I am not sure about that - maybe we need to make a rule!). We do have one tournament a year where we break into 10 player round robins and we found that players from other clubs, or inactive players, would want to play in the top event.

    We made a rule that before you can be considered for the Premier, you have to play in one normal rated event at Belco in the previous 12 months. That means all the club members get the benefit of having strong competitors added to at least one open tournament and that long term club members find it a little easier to get into the Premier. It is not a huge commitment and there haven't been any complaints as yet.

    Our Premier was FIDE rated for the first time last year, but I am not sure whether anyone sees that as an added attraction..
    Last edited by jenni; 26-01-2006 at 02:46 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by drug
    Somehow I find Sydney has a very few tournaments which are FIDE rated. On top of that (a huge surprise at least for myself) I have found that some of them are closed!?
    drug, maybe try the st george club championships.
    this is fide-rated but with less restrictions

  11. #11
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    The North Sydney run Ford Memorial is open to all and is FIDE rated.
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  12. #12
    CC FIDE Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    Our Premier was FIDE rated for the first time last year, but I am not sure whether anyone sees that as an added attraction..
    To me it was an added attraction and was the reason that I played. It is important not just for the club, but for Australian chess that we have these local tournaments as not everyone has the money,drive or opportunity to travel overseas to get their first FIDE rating.

  13. #13
    CC Candidate Master The_Wise_Man's Avatar
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    FIDE Rated Tournaments in Sydney

    The following tournaments are FIDE rated:

    St George Club Championship (Open Division and Reserves Division 1 (and potentially Reserves Division 2) organised by the St George Leagues Club Chess Club at Kogarah

    Canterbury Open organised by the Canterbury Leagues Club Chess Club now playing at Lakemba.

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  14. #14
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaun
    To me it was an added attraction and was the reason that I played. It is important not just for the club, but for Australian chess that we have these local tournaments as not everyone has the money,drive or opportunity to travel overseas to get their first FIDE rating.
    Oh good - we are FIDE rating it again this year, so I hope that means you will play - although does it conflict with Turin?

    It was interesting that some of the people who were most against FIDE rating it, did end up playing in it.

  15. #15
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Hakoah

    Does Hakoah have any FIDE rated Events?
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