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  1. #1
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    PROTOS experiment

    Ok, so I am undertaking a PROTOS experiment on the Australian Championships draws (just completed).

    The first round of difference with the official draw is Rd 7.

    Official draw:
    Code:
    1 	2537 	2 	GM Chandler, Murray (5) 	0 - 1 	GM Rogers, Ian (4.5) 	2556 	2631
    2 	2340 	2324 	FM Xie, George (4) 		 -  	GM Schmaltz, Roland (4.5) 	2544 	2530
    3 	2421 	2405 	IM Smerdon, David (4.5) 	1 - 0 	IM Lane, Gary (4) 	2445 	2484
    4 	2462 	2453 	GM Johansen, Darryl (3.5) 	 -  	GM Ftacnik, Lubomir (4) 	2612 	2690
    5 	2354 	2296 	FM Canfell, Greg (3.5) 		 -  	IM Zhao, Zong-Yuan (3.5) 	2461 	2475
    6 	2439 	2538 	IM Wohl, Alex (3.5) 		 -  	FM Bjelobrk, Igor (3.5) 	2399 	2408
    7 	2415 	2391 	IM Solomon, Stephen (3) 	 -  	Smirnov, Vladimir (3.5) 	2235 	2237
    8 	2254 	2189 	FM Humphrey, Jonathan (3) 	 -  	FM Guthrie, Aaron (3) 	2251 	2120
    9 	2112 	2093 	WIM Moylan, Laura (2.5) 	0 - 1 	Song, Raymond (3) 	2051 	2073
    10 	2146 	2105 	Bird, Andrew (2.5) 		0 - 1 	FM Goldenberg, Igor (2.5) 	2335 	2315
    11 	2162 	2148 	Ly, Moulthun (2.5) 		1 - 0 	WIM Caoili, Arianne (2.5) 	2207 	2293
    12 	2126 	2079 	Pyke, Malcolm (2) 		 -  	Obst, James (2.5) 	2012 	2054
    13 	2223 	0 	FM Dougherty, Michael (2) 	0 - 1 	Booth, Stewart (2) 	2179 	2184
    14 	0 	1850 	Frame, Nigel (1.5) 		0 - 1 	Lakner, Jay (1.5) 	2207 	2145
    15 	2114 	2055 	Wallis, Christopher (1.5) 	1 	Bye
    PROTOS:

    Code:
    Pairings of round No.  7
    
      1    4 Chandler                ( 5  )  -    2 Rogers                  ( 4.5)
      2   13 Xie                     ( 4  )  -    3 Schmaltz                ( 4.5)
      3    9 Smerdon                 ( 4.5)  -    7 Lane                    ( 4  )
      4    5 Johansen                ( 3.5)  -    1 Ftacnik                 ( 4  )
      5   11 Bjelobrk                ( 3.5)  -    6 Zhao                    ( 3.5)
      6    8 Wohl                    ( 3.5)  -   18 Smirnov                 ( 3.5)
      7   10 Solomon                 ( 3  )  -   12 Canfell                 ( 3.5)
      8   15 Humphrey                ( 3  )  -   16 Guthrie                 ( 3  )
      9   29 Obst                    ( 2.5)  -   28 Song                    ( 3  )
     10   19 Dougherty               ( 2  )  -   14 Goldenberg              ( 2.5)
     11   24 Bird                    ( 2.5)  -   22 Booth                   ( 2  )
     12   25 Pyke                    ( 2  )  -   23 Ly                      ( 2.5)
     13   30 Frame                   ( 1.5)  -   20 Caoili                  ( 2.5)
     14   27 Moylan                  ( 2.5)  -   26 Wallis                  ( 1.5)
     15   21 Lakner                  ( 1.5)  -    0 to receive the bye
    So the first question is this:

    Why does PROTOS float Canfell instead of Smirnov?

    The second question is: What on *earth* is going on with boards 9 onwards?? There isn't a single homogeneous pairing among them!!

  2. #2
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    Boards 10 onwards have done exactly what was descibed earlier: combined the 1.5-2.5 groups into a single group, and paired top vs bottom. This cannot be correct..

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Hello Pax,

    I wouldnt look at round seven too closely. It contained an error which wasnt picked up until round nine. In round seven, Song was downfloated two rounds in a row, round six and seven. Clearly this is incorrect.

    For testing protos, I would go to round nine. That is where the biggest difference lies and when the arbiting meeting took place as Jason, Charles and myself came up with different pairings. Again it all came down to B4 or C6 takes precedence.

  4. #4
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    pax, maybe you could add the swissmaster view(http://www.schaakbond.nl/swissmaster/bestele.htm)
    to this small experiment??

    from my 5 minutes of googling it seems like swissmaster
    is used at the big tournaments (eg. aeroflot open 2005)
    whereas protos seems to be the more official (but less used) program.

    the question would then be: why do we overide protos (and swissmaster)?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by auriga
    pax, maybe you could add the swissmaster view(http://www.schaakbond.nl/swissmaster/bestele.htm)
    to this small experiment??
    I'd love to. You wanna give me 50 Euros for a license?

  6. #6
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    Round 8 official:

    Official:
    Code:
    1 	2556 	2631 	GM Rogers, Ian (5.5) 		1 - 0 	GM Schmaltz, Roland (5) 	2544 	2530
    2 	2421 	2405 	IM Smerdon, David (5.5) 	1 - 0 	FM Xie, George (4.5) 	2340 	2324
    3 	2461 	2475 	IM Zhao, Zong-Yuan (4) 		0 - 1 	GM Chandler, Murray (5) 	2537 	2
    4 	2399 	2408 	FM Bjelobrk, Igor (4) 		0 - 1 	GM Ftacnik, Lubomir (4.5) 	2612 	2690
    5 	2235 	2237 	Smirnov, Vladimir (4) 		 -  	GM Johansen, Darryl (4) 	2462 	2453
    6 	2445 	2484 	IM Lane, Gary (4) 		1 - 0 	FM Canfell, Greg (4) 	2354 	2296
    7 	2051 	2073 	Song, Raymond (4) 		0 - 1 	IM Wohl, Alex (4) 	2439 	2538
    8 	2251 	2120 	FM Guthrie, Aaron (3.5) 	0 - 1 	IM Solomon, Stephen (3.5) 	2415 	2391
    9 	2335 	2315 	FM Goldenberg, Igor (3.5) 	1 - 0 	FM Humphrey, Jonathan (3.5) 	2254 	2189
    10 	2012 	2054 	Obst, James (3) 		0 - 1 	Ly, Moulthun (3.5) 	2162 	2148
    11 	2179 	2184 	Booth, Stewart (3) 		 -  	WIM Moylan, Laura (2.5) 	2112 	2093
    12 	2207 	2145 	Lakner, Jay (2.5) 		0 - 1 	Wallis, Christopher (2.5) 	2114 	2055
    13 	2146 	2105 	Bird, Andrew (2.5) 		0 - 1 	Pyke, Malcolm (2.5) 	2126 	2079
    14 	2207 	2293 	WIM Caoili, Arianne (2.5) 	1 - 0 	Frame, Nigel (1.5) 	0 	1850
    15 	2223 	0 	FM Dougherty, Michael (2) 	1 	Bye
    PROTOS:
    Code:
     1    2 Rogers                  ( 5.5)  -    3 Schmaltz                ( 5  )
     2    6 Zhao                    ( 4  )  -    9 Smerdon                 ( 5.5)
     3    8 Wohl                    ( 4  )  -    4 Chandler                ( 5  )
     4    1 Ftacnik                 ( 4.5)  -   13 Xie                     ( 4.5)
     5   18 Smirnov                 ( 4  )  -    5 Johansen                ( 4  )
     6    7 Lane                    ( 4  )  -   12 Canfell                 ( 4  )
     7   11 Bjelobrk                ( 4  )  -   28 Song                    ( 4  )
     8   16 Guthrie                 ( 3.5)  -   10 Solomon                 ( 3.5)
     9   14 Goldenberg              ( 3.5)  -   15 Humphrey                ( 3.5)
    10   29 Obst                    ( 3  )  -   23 Ly                      ( 3.5)
    11   22 Booth                   ( 3  )  -   27 Moylan                  ( 2.5)
    12   21 Lakner                  ( 2.5)  -   26 Wallis                  ( 2.5)
    13   24 Bird                    ( 2.5)  -   25 Pyke                    ( 2.5)
    14   20 Caoili                  ( 2.5)  -   30 Frame                   ( 1.5)
    15   19 Dougherty               ( 2  )  -    0 to receive the bye
    Here PROTOS does something strange by not pairing Smerdon with the highest ranked valid opponent (Xie). Instead it seems to be double floating in search of a valid colour preference..

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    I'd love to. You wanna give me 50 Euros for a license?
    you can download free can't you?

    i downloaded and installed. having tried feeding in some data though!

  8. #8
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    Round 9:

    Official:
    Code:
    1 	2439 	2538 	IM Wohl, Alex (5) 		 -  	GM Rogers, Ian (6.5) 	2556 	2631
    2 	2415 	2391 	IM Solomon, Stephen (4.5) 	 -  	IM Smerdon, David (6.5) 	2421 	2405
    3 	2544 	2530 	GM Schmaltz, Roland (5) 	 -  	GM Chandler, Murray (6) 	2537 	2
    4 	2612 	2690 	GM Ftacnik, Lubomir (5.5) 	 -  	IM Lane, Gary (5) 	2445 	2484
    5 	2340 	2324 	FM Xie, George (4.5) 		 -  	FM Goldenberg, Igor (4.5) 	2335 	2315
    6 	2162 	2148 	Ly, Moulthun (4.5) 		 -  	Smirnov, Vladimir (4.5) 	2235 	2237
    7 	2462 	2453 	GM Johansen, Darryl (4.5) 	 -  	IM Zhao, Zong-Yuan (4) 	2461 	2475
    8 	2354 	2296 	FM Canfell, Greg (4) 		1 - 0 	FM Bjelobrk, Igor (4) 	2399 	2408
    9 	2114 	2055 	Wallis, Christopher (3.5) 	0 - 1 	Song, Raymond (4) 	2051 	2073
    10 	2254 	2189 	FM Humphrey, Jonathan (3.5) 	1 - 0 	Booth, Stewart (3.5) 	2179 	2184
    11 	2126 	2079 	Pyke, Malcolm (3.5) 		1 - 0 	FM Guthrie, Aaron (3.5) 	2251 	2120
    12 	2112 	2093 	WIM Moylan, Laura (3) 		 -  	WIM Caoili, Arianne (3.5) 	2207 	2293
    13 	2207 	2145 	Lakner, Jay (2.5) 		1 - 0 	FM Dougherty, Michael (3) 	2223 	0
    14 	0 	1850 	Frame, Nigel (1.5) 		0 - 1 	Obst, James (3) 	2012 	2054
    15 	2146 	2105 	Bird, Andrew (2.5) 		1 	Bye
    PROTOS:
    Code:
     1    8 Wohl                    ( 5  )  -    2 Rogers                  ( 6.5)
     2   10 Solomon                 ( 4.5)  -    9 Smerdon                 ( 6.5)
     3    3 Schmaltz                ( 5  )  -    4 Chandler                ( 6  )
     4    1 Ftacnik                 ( 5.5)  -    7 Lane                    ( 5  )
     5   13 Xie                     ( 4.5)  -   14 Goldenberg              ( 4.5)
     6   23 Ly                      ( 4.5)  -   18 Smirnov                 ( 4.5)
     7    5 Johansen                ( 4.5)  -    6 Zhao                    ( 4  )
     8   12 Canfell                 ( 4  )  -   11 Bjelobrk                ( 4  )
     9   26 Wallis                  ( 3.5)  -   28 Song                    ( 4  )
    10   15 Humphrey                ( 3.5)  -   19 Dougherty               ( 3  )
    11   27 Moylan                  ( 3  )  -   20 Caoili                  ( 3.5)
    12   29 Obst                    ( 3  )  -   22 Booth                   ( 3.5)
    13   25 Pyke                    ( 3.5)  -   21 Lakner                  ( 2.5)
    14   30 Frame                   ( 1.5)  -   16 Guthrie                 ( 3.5)
    15   24 Bird                    ( 2.5)  -    0 to receive the bye
    Once again, it looks like PROTOS can't be arsed after board 9.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by auriga
    you can download free can't you?

    i downloaded and installed. having tried feeding in some data though!
    You can only do three rounds in the free version.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    You can only do three rounds in the free version.
    but we only want to do 1 round

    oh well, i'm off to the pub.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by auriga
    but we only want to do 1 round

    oh well, i'm off to the pub.
    Yes, but we want to do round nine. A bit tricky when you can only enter the first three...

  12. #12
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Note round 7 as actually played was not the pairings as generated by Swiss Perfect.

    Neither were rounds 9 or 11.

    The Sp regressio test shows:
    Code:
    Round 1
    pairings identical
    Round 2
    pairings identical
    Round 3
    pairings identical
    Round 4
    pairings identical
    Round 5
    pairings identical
    Round 6
    pairings identical
    Round 7
    pair 5: existing 12-6,  proposed by SP 11-6
    pair 6: existing 8-11,  proposed by SP 8-18
    pair 7: existing 10-18,  proposed by SP 10-12
    pair 9: existing 27-28,  proposed by SP 29-28
    pair 11: existing 23-20,  proposed by SP 27-20
    pair 12: existing 25-29,  proposed by SP 25-23
    Round 8
    pairings identical
    Round 9
    pair 12: existing 27-20,  proposed by SP 21-20
    pair 13: existing 21-19,  proposed by SP 27-19
    Round 10
    pairings identical
    Round 11
    pair 1: existing 28-2,  proposed by SP 9-28
    pair 2: existing 9-14,  proposed by SP 13-2
    pair 3: existing 10-4,  proposed by SP 4-8
    pair 4: existing 8-3,  proposed by SP 14-3
    pair 5: existing 1-13,  proposed by SP 1-18
    pair 6: existing 7-18,  proposed by SP 10-7
    pair 10: existing 23-22,  proposed by SP 23-19
    pair 11: existing 20-16,  proposed by SP 24-22
    pair 12: existing 24-19,  proposed by SP 20-16
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Note round 7 as actually played was not the pairings as generated by Swiss Perfect.

    Neither were rounds 9 or 11.
    Again Bill is correct and I should have added this. Interesting to note that it is the odd numbered rounds that had pairings changed from what swiss perfect generated.

    The pairings used for the Australian Championships were manually done.

  14. #14
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Round 7 as played:

    5. Canfell [3.5] - Zhao [3.5]
    6. Wohl [3.5] - Bjelobrk [3.5]
    7. Solomon [3] - Smirnov [3.5]
    8. Humphrey [3]] -Guthrie[3]
    9. Moylan [2.5] - Song [3]
    10. Bird [2.5] - Goldenberg [2.5]
    11. Ly [2.5] - Caoili [2.5]
    12. Pyke [2] - Obst [2.5]


    Round 7 as generated by SP:

    5. Bjelobrk [3.5] - Zhao [3.5] same as PROTOS
    6. Wohl [3.5] - Smirnov [3.5] same as PROTOS
    7. Solomon [3] - Canfell [3.5] same as PROTOS
    8. Humphrey [3]] - Guthrie[3] same as PROTOS
    9. Obst [2.5] - Song [3] same as PROTOS
    10. Bird [2.5] - Goldenberg [2.5]
    11. Moylan [2.5] - Caoili [2.5]
    12. Pyke [2] - Ly [2.5] same as PROTOS

    Round 9 as played:

    Moylan [3] - Caoili [3.5]
    Lakner [2.5] - Dougherty [3]

    Round 9 as generated by SP:

    Lakner [2.5] - Caoili [3.5]
    Moylan [3] - Dougherty [3]
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 25-01-2006 at 05:47 PM.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  15. #15
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auriga
    pax, maybe you could add the swissmaster view(http://www.schaakbond.nl/swissmaster/bestele.htm)
    to this small experiment??

    from my 5 minutes of googling it seems like swissmaster
    is used at the big tournaments (eg. aeroflot open 2005)
    whereas protos seems to be the more official (but less used) program.

    the question would then be: why do we overide protos (and swissmaster)?
    We had a lot of discussion about this in Brisbane. A copy of swiss master 5 is being purchased and it will be parallel run at Doeberl to examine differences.

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