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  1. #1
    CC International Master Carl Gorka's Avatar
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    Illegal Moves Question

    If a player in a tournament game makes an illegal move but the game is carried on because neither player saw the move was illegal (for instance, missing a discovered check) and the game was then finished in favour of the player who made the illegal move, can the losing player appeal after the game when he discovers that an illegal move has been played? And what happens if the player notices a few moves later in the game? Can he get the position reset with the help of an arbiter?

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  2. #2
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireeater
    If a player in a tournament game makes an illegal move but the game is carried on because neither player saw the move was illegal (for instance, missing a discovered check) and the game was then finished in favour of the player who made the illegal move, can the losing player appeal after the game when he discovers that an illegal move has been played?
    Once the game has ended no claim can be made.

    Quote Originally Posted by fireeater
    And what happens if the player notices a few moves later in the game? Can he get the position reset with the help of an arbiter?
    Yes. It is covered by Article 7.4.

    7.4
    a. If during a game it is found that an illegal move, including failing to meet the requirements of the promotion of a pawn or capturing the opponent`s king, has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated. If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined, the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. The clocks shall be adjusted according to Article 6.14. Article 4.3 applies to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this reinstated position.

    b. After the action taken under Article 7.4(a), for the first two illegal moves by a player the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent in each instance; for a third illegal move by the same player, the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player.
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  3. #3
    . eclectic's Avatar
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    notational revisionism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Once the game has ended no claim can be made.
    So how are such games entered into databases etc .... truncated to a point before the illegality and deemed as though the losing party had resigned there and then?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    So how are such games entered into databases etc .... truncated to a point before the illegality and deemed as though the losing party had resigned there and then?
    Illegal moves only very rarely happen at a level where the moves are entered in databases, and more rarely still are not detected until the game is concluded (does anyone know of any examples?), so it's a pretty moot point. I suppose you can put all of the scoresheet moves in the PGN with a comment at the point of the illegal move.

  5. #5
    CC International Master Carl Gorka's Avatar
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    Thanks Bill, that was exactly what I wanted to know.

    Pax, check out the oz junior champs, there are a number of games where an illegal move was made, especially in the under 12's and the girls under 12's. As the games were put online in databases this had to be addressed and the games where illegal moves were made were stopped at that point with a comment such as illegal move made, White won on move X.
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  6. #6
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Illegal moves only very rarely happen at a level where the moves are entered in databases, and more rarely still are not detected until the game is concluded (does anyone know of any examples?),
    Zhao-Rujevic, Aus Champs Mingara 1999-2000 round 5. Zhao played 30.Qh5xb5 which was illegal as he had a pawn on g5 but neither player noticed until the game was finished. He had a clearly won position anyway when this occurred.

    I would like game editing software to include an override to permit you to include illegal moves.
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  7. #7
    . eclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Zhao-Rujevic, Aus Champs Mingara 1999-2000 round 5. Zhao played 30.Qh5xb5 which was illegal as he had a pawn on g5 but neither player noticed until the game was finished. He had a clearly won position anyway when this occurred.

    I would like game editing software to include an override to permit you to include illegal moves.
    better still ...

    if a mobile phone going off loses a game why not making an illegal move?
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  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    better still ...

    if a mobile phone going off loses a game why not making an illegal move?
    because the phone going off disturbs everybody in the playing hall. An illegal move is easily rectified most of the time.

    Never mind that mobiles can be used to communicate moves etc, especially in tournaments with dgt broadcasting.

  9. #9
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    So how are such games entered into databases etc .... truncated to a point before the illegality and deemed as though the losing party had resigned there and then?
    You can include the illegal move and the remaining moves as comments in the game score. Therefore athough this wont allow playing the moves in the software, a record of the whole game can be shown.
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  10. #10
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    You can record a game in Chessbase starting from a set-up position other than the original so it's possible to save the game in two fragments. Not ideal (and not quick) but failing anything else it's at least of way of saving a record of the game. However it probably wouldn't be impossible for CB to change the program to allow entry of illegal moves. It already allows input of a null move, for instance to explain in the notes what the threat is.

  11. #11
    . eclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    because the phone going off disturbs everybody in the playing hall. An illegal move is easily rectified most of the time.

    Never mind that mobiles can be used to communicate moves etc, especially in tournaments with dgt broadcasting.
    and i'm sure that deliberately played illegal moves disturb only the person that needs to be disturbed viz the opponent never mind that they are "compensated" with extra time the damage is usually already done

    no doubt the experienced chess "hustler" will when cornered resort to this "tactic" with consummate effect
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  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    and i'm sure that deliberately played illegal moves disturb only the person that needs to be disturbed viz the opponent never mind that they are "compensated" with extra time the damage is usually already done

    no doubt the experienced chess "hustler" will when cornered resort to this "tactic" with consummate effect
    take it up with fide

  13. #13
    . eclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    take it up with fide
    perhaps guert already haunts this forum for light reading ... [wink]
    .

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    perhaps guert already haunts this forum for light reading ... [wink]
    or maybe he just hovers : p

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    and i'm sure that deliberately played illegal moves disturb only the person that needs to be disturbed viz the opponent never mind that they are "compensated" with extra time the damage is usually already done

    no doubt the experienced chess "hustler" will when cornered resort to this "tactic" with consummate effect
    I was a victim of an attempted 'hustle' many years ago in an Australian Junior Lightning. My opponent was a top player (and indeed went on to win the Lightning).

    I was crap at lightning, and placed my rook en prise to his queen. When he failed to capture my rook (much to my surprise), I captured his queen. I went on to win the game with checkmate. My opponent did not acknowledge the checkmate and instead sat looking at the board. After failing to extract any acknowledgement from him, I went off to record the result. While I was away from the board, my opponent escaped from checkmate with an illegal move, pressed my clock, and my flag fell. He then attempted to claim a win on time (more to my surprise). Fortunately, the arbiter was having none of it and correctly ruled that the game had ended with checkmate.

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