View Poll Results: What is your views on abortion?

Voters
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  • Abortion should be banned under ALL circumstances

    4 13.33%
  • Abortion should be available on demand

    18 60.00%
  • Abortion should be available in LIMITED circumstances

    8 26.67%
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  1. #1
    CC International Master
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    Abortion - an issue in Australia?

    in the USA, one of the biggest issues in terms of politics in abortion. Ever since the Roe vs Wade judgement by the US Supreme Court, the debate over abortion has been a big factor in US presidential and congressional races.

    I am open on this issue, and if anything lean to the pro-choice lobby as I think that it is a women's right to choose and that a child becomes a child after birth - not at the time of conception.

    Yet is US, the war over abortion is really that - a war. Millions of dollars are spent in state and federal elections over this issue, and in trying to ensure that "their" political candidates win.

    The recent years has seen the conservative right take control in a lot of US states, and they have brought in laws that whilst they do not restrict the rights given by Roe vs Wade (which they cannot ever do, as it is a US supreme court judgment) curtails and makes it difficult for a woman to have abortion. In addition there has been lot of judges elected with anti-abortion views, and the Congress also has an anti-abortion majority. President Bush also is against abortion (something that I disagree with him)

    The US government now stops funding for anti-abortion programmes world wide and funds planned parenthood initiatives. The US government has repeatedly condemned china for it's abortion policies - something that our very own Tassie Brian haridane also did.

    The only thing that stops Roe vs wade being overturned in the USA is now the US supreme court

    Currently in the US supreme court, there are 5 conservatives and 4 liberals - the same 5 who voted for Bush over the 4 who voted for Gore in the decision on election 2000. However only 3 of the 5 supreme court judges (teh chieg Justice, Clarence Thomas and Scullia) are anti-abortionist. However it is expected that at least 2 (maybe 3) of the Supreme Court judges will retire within the next 4 years - which means that should Bush win, and given the pro_bush majority in the House and Senate, he will appoint anti-abortion judges that will roll back teh advances women made since the early 70s as a result of Roe vs wade.

    Thus over the next 4 years, especially if President Bush wins in 2004, abortion will loom as the biggest domestic political issue in USA

    However whilst abortion is such a trigger and emotional issue in the US, it does not seem to be a big issue here. The right to abortion is recognised and accepted by the Australian mainsrtream, and other than people like Fred Niles and Brian Haridane, by most of the poltical mainstream as well...
    Always do your Best

  2. #2
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    Abortion is illegal in Queensland. The term 'abortion on demand' is misleading. In fact, anyone requesting a termination within the mainstream western medical system would generally be counselled and assessed by their medical attendants before any decisions are made. Medical factors are considered and any pressures that are being placed on the mother are explored. Essentially this is a clinical process where the best medical interests of the patient are sort.

    Most individuals do not undergo this decision lightly and seek medical advice in order that they arrive at an appropriate decision. In my experience, most individuals or couples attend with the expectation to be counselled. The term 'abortion on demand' impunes the integrity of every individual or couple that has wrestled with what is often the most difficult decision of their lives.
    Last edited by David_Richards; 02-02-2004 at 11:40 PM.

  3. #3
    CC International Master
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    huh? how come?

    I know that under Sir Joh Queensland was very rightwing in it's law, but with Goss and Beattie I would have thought that they woudl have changed the law by now

    I know any woman who wants to abort can go to another australian state, but why has there been no pressure to make it legal in Queensland?
    Always do your Best

  4. #4
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chesslover
    huh? how come?

    I know that under Sir Joh Queensland was very rightwing in it's law, but with Goss and Beattie I would have thought that they woudl have changed the law by now

    I know any woman who wants to abort can go to another australian state, but why has there been no pressure to make it legal in Queensland?
    It's too hot a potato for any contemporary politician risk their delicate neck over. Its easier for them to be made to travel to NSW.

  5. #5
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    It is my belief that abortion is the moral equivalent of murder under every and any possible circumstance. NOTHING justifies it.
    Scott

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    This is not an acceptable position Scott. You must change it immediately. What about women who've been raped? If they choose to abort - so be it.

    AR

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    This is not an acceptable position Scott. You must change it immediately. What about women who've been raped? If they choose to abort - so be it.

    AR
    Oh, come off it. This is a good christian country for full good christian women who ar e just dieing to have the children of their rapists. Family Planning clinics never do good business even when they are marketed properly with catchy jingles like, "You Rape 'em, We Scape 'em", or "No Feotus Can Beat Us."

    Around 50% of zygotes (fertilised eggs) do not implant in the endometrium. Since these poor little buggers have a sole, and are just lost in down the S-bend riding the blue tailed mouse, the government should be trying to save them for reimplantation. Not to do so is tantamount to manslaughter. The scheme could involve a monthly collection service, donor programs, and even a Christian Recipient of the Year comp for the woman who has the largest number of implanted humans born in one go.

    What concerns me is that those few evil women who use abortion as an excuse to chuck a sicky, don't even get to put the products of conception to good use. Can't they be given a doggy bag to feed Fido?

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    This is not an acceptable position Scott. You must change it immediately. What about women who've been raped? If they choose to abort - so be it.

    AR
    It is not the resulting humans fault that it was concieved as a result of a rape, it shouldn't be killed. I am not changing my opinion on this issue. I am going to stay completely closed minded about this. Don't waste your time trying to convince me. I don't think I will post in this thread again
    Scott

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottColliver
    I am not changing my opinion on this issue. I am going to stay completely closed minded about this. Don't waste your time trying to convince me.
    Dangerous [censored].
    Last edited by Barry Cox; 03-02-2004 at 03:08 PM.

  10. #10
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    Pope Rules OK

    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    This is not an acceptable position Scott. You must change it immediately. What about women who've been raped? If they choose to abort - so be it.

    AR
    I had this debate eight years ago which co-incided when nuns were raped in a civil war somewhere. The Pope allowed them to have abortions. I even have the newspaper clipping of it somewhere.

    Was it Gough Whitlam when challenged on his position on this replied: "And in your case it should be carried out retrospectively"?
    Last edited by antichrist; 03-02-2004 at 04:10 PM.

  11. #11
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottColliver
    It is not the resulting humans fault that it was concieved as a result of a rape, it shouldn't be killed.
    Firstly, I simply don't agree, because it isn't alive until it's born.

    Secondly - it's not the mother's fault she was raped (by definition) so she shouldn't have to suffer the consequences.

    Would you at least concede that if abortion was to be completely banned, a woman who is raped and forced to carry the child to term should be paid immense compensation for the physical hardship, disgust, embarrassment and opprobrium she may suffer as a result? Frankly I don't think a million dollars would cover it.

  12. #12
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    I dont think money could cover it because of the embarrassment, hardship and disgust.

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Firstly, I simply don't agree, because it isn't alive until it's born.
    Interesting statement - one that I don't necesarrily agree with. Whatever the merits of what you say Kevo, I'm not sure that it has any relevance to whether a rape victim should be permitted to abort or not. In other words, alive or not, person or not - a product of rape should be allowed to be aborted if the victim so wishes. That's my position.

    AR

  14. #14
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Interesting statement - one that I don't necesarrily agree with. Whatever the merits of what you say Kevo, I'm not sure that it has any relevance to whether a rape victim should be permitted to abort or not. In other words, alive or not, person or not - a product of rape should be allowed to be aborted if the victim so wishes. That's my position.
    What if the fruit of this crime was not discovered until the second trimester?
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Firstly, I simply don't agree, because it isn't alive until it's born.
    It most certainly alive. It isn't a scentient being and the law in some states do not recognise it as a "person", and therefore killing it is not murder. But it is alive.

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