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  1. #61
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    And what is the meaning of "stupidy" anyway?
    Well, this one has a trivial answer. Stupidity==fg7!

    P.S. When I was a kid I was often told by my mother: "If you say nothing then nobody will say that you are stupid". This is I believe something fg7 has never been told.

  2. #62
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drug
    Well, this one has a trivial answer. Stupidity==fg7!

    P.S. When I was a kid I was often told by my mother: "If you say nothing then nobody will say that you are stupid". This is I believe something fg7 has never been told.
    Drug,

    There is a difference between making a typo, while typing at speed and completely denying an arguement simply because you were refuted. Even if the argument is there for all to see....now that is really stupid.....my corkhead friend.

    cheers Fg7

  3. #63
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    I don't think it proves nothing. But for me to believe your junior statistics you need to break it down statistically.
    I don't care what is necessary for you to believe anything. The point is that for the same data (more 2000-2200 players as %age of players in WA) you have advanced an explanation. I have advanced an alternative. Unless you can either prove your explanation or disprove mine then all we have is competing hypotheses and your point has not been proven.

    To suggest that somebody who goes up from 1000-1400 i.e. 400 points, compared to somebody who goes from 2300-2500 i.e. 200 points is a more improved player is simply false. The reality is its not about the quantity of the points anyway. Its about the quality of the points. Something that Mr Paxman does not understand.
    Even if true, that is irrelevant to this discussion, because the wasp in your bonnet concerns the prospects of adults under 2150 being admitted to the Aus Champs, compared with juniors. If the ratings of the adults and juniors being compared are the same, then the "quality of the points" is the same, all other things being equal.

  4. #64
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I don't care what is necessary for you to believe anything. The point is that for the same data (more 2000-2200 players as %age of players in WA) you have advanced an explanation. I have advanced an alternative. Unless you can either prove your explanation or disprove mine then all we have is competing hypotheses and your point has not been proven.
    I have no problem with you advancing an alternative. It may even be correct, just don't expect me to confirm your statistics. Do it yourself, you advance the theory, you provide the evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonham



    Even if true, that is irrelevant to this discussion, because the wasp in your bonnet concerns the prospects of adults under 2150 being admitted to the Aus Champs, compared with juniors. If the ratings of the adults and juniors being compared are the same, then the "quality of the points" is the same, all other things being equal.
    I have no problem with this arguement either. It is true it is irrelevent to the initial discussion. That is why I qualified my point as being a new one. This is what is supposed to happen out of dialectic, isn't it? Anyway, how can you have a dialectical discussion with somebody who cannot accept the most basic of contexts.Who refuses to move on with the conversation simply because they were wrong. Pax should admit his failings

    cheers Fg7
    Last edited by firegoat7; 03-12-2005 at 09:17 PM.

  5. #65
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    I have no problem with you advancing an alternative. It may even be correct, just don't expect me to confirm your statistics. Do it yourself, you advance the theory, you provide the evidence.
    I wasn't aiming to prove it though. I was just aiming to show that your theory is unproven and may well be wrong.

  6. #66
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I wasn't aiming to prove it though. I was just aiming to show that your theory is unproven and may well be wrong.
    While it is true my theory may be incorrect, it is also true it may be correct. Furthermore, a theory with some quantitative data behind it is better evidence then a theory with no data.

    cheers Fg7

  7. #67
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    Hello everyone,

    here is the current field ( subject to approval) as listed at the official website

    2006 Australian Championships
    Code:
    Player	Title	State	FIDE	ACF
    Ftacnik, Lubomir	GM	SVK	2612	2690
    Rogers, Ian	GM	NSW	2556	2631
    Schmaltz, Roland	GM	GER	2544	2530
    Chandler, Murray	GM	ENG	2537	249
    Johansen, Darryl	GM	VIC	2462	2453
    Zhao, Zong-Yuan	IM	NSW	2461	2475
    Lane, Gary	IM	NSW	2445	2484
    Wohl, Alex	IM	QLD	2439	2538
    Smerdon, David	IM	QLD	2421	2405
    Solomon, Stephen	IM	QLD	2415	2391
    Bjelobrk, Igor	FM	NSW	2399	2408
    Sandler, Leonid	IM	VIC	2381	2306
    Canfell, Greg	FM	NSW	2354	2296
    Xie, George	FM	NSW	2340	2324
    Goldenberg, Igor	FM	VIC	2335	2315
    Humphrey, Jonathan	FM	QLD	2254	2189
    Guthrie, Aaron	FM	SA	2251	2120
    Levi, Eddy	FM	VIC	2241	2235
    Dougherty, Michael	FM	CAN	2212	2228
    Caoili, Arianne	WIM	QLD	2207	2293
    Lakner, Jay		WA	2207	2145
    Jones, Lee	FM	NSW	2189	2054
    Norris, Damian		QLD	2180	2084
    Booth, Stewart		VIC	2179	2184
    Ly, Moulthun		QLD	2162	2148
    Bird, Andrew		NSW	2146	2105
    Wallis, Christopher		VIC	2114	2055
    Moylan, Laura	WIM	NSW	2112	2093
    Song, Raymond		NSW	2051	2073
    Obst, James		SA	2012	2054
    Frame, Nigel		TAS		1849
    		*249 BCF = 2592 ELO
    Take care and God Bless, Macavity

  8. #68
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    Hello, Everyone,
    and the field for the Major

    Code:
    Australian Major
    Sheldrick, Kevin		SA		2118
    Tredinnick, Malcolm		NSW	2172	2073
    Milligan, Helen	WFM	SCO	2045	159 BCF*
    Marner, Gavin		NZL	1975	2044 NZCF
    Hu, Jason		NSW	2081	2024
    Dizdarevic, Mehmedalija	VIC	2122	2014
    Zvedeniouk, Ilia		NSW	2123	2001
    Wongwichit, Phachara	QLD	2032	1945
    Wright, Neil		NSW	2141	1945
    Mendes da Costa, Alex	NSW	2044	1930
    Fry, Peter		VIC		1908
    Truscott, Tony		QLD	2082	1879
    Davidovici, Victor		QLD		1861
    Lilly, Richard		WA	1994	1851
    Vijayakumar, Rukman	VIC	2019	1851
    Rout, Ian		ACT	2048	1846
    Cashman, Michael		QLD		1842
    Myers, John		QLD	2069	1833
    Tulevski, Vasil		NSW	2021	1828
    Davis, Tony		VIC	1988	1816
    Lukursky, Boris		QLD		1784
    Lazarus, Ben		QLD	2155	1771
    Selnes, Hamish		QLD	1953	1752
    McKenzie, Colin		VIC		1716
    Holland, Dennis		WA		1715
    Hackenschmidt-Uecker, Jorg	QLD		1708
    Guo-Yuthok, Sherab		ACT	1878	1706
    Cox, Barry		NSW		1701
    Oliver, Shannon	WFM	ACT	1956	1685
    Korenevski, Oleg		QLD		1674
    Canfell, Mike		NSW		1648
    Brockman, Roland		VIC	1784	1628
    Schon, Eugene		VIC		1611
    Humphries, Ryan		WA		1555
    Barker, Ken		QLD		1526
    Chuang, Howard		QLD		1514
    Tang, Jason		VIC		1466
    Horton, Russell		TAS		1357
    Russell, Luthien		QLD		1334
    Hunter, Shayne		QLD		1235
    Guo, Emma		ACT		1197
    Kenmure, Jamie		VIC		1150
    Bhattacharya, Devraj	VIC		1113
    Bielenberg, Nathanael	QLD		1112
    Long Hong, Stan		QLD		1094
    Sheng, Susan		VIC		1085
    Soo, Brayden		QLD		unr
    		*159 BCF = 2045 ELO

    Take care and God Bless, Macavity

  9. #69
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    That's some poor coding there. Better just go to the website to view those entrants.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  10. #70
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    Hi Belthasar,

    Actually up until today the official site had an atrocious display of the field, much worse than what you see above.

    As it is, the problem with copying and pasting this information is exascerbated by the fact that the two columns of different tournaments are considered to be on one line within the site and as such, it was necessary to first paste the information into a text program ( Word in this case ) prior to posting it here.

    That explains what I know of the poor formatting and its causes. For any other concerns, my apologies to you, and any others that were concerned,

    Take care and God Bless, Macavity

  11. #71
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macavity
    Hi Belthasar,

    Actually up until today the official site had an atrocious display of the field, much worse than what you see above.

    As it is, the problem with copying and pasting this information is exascerbated by the fact that the two columns of different tournaments are considered to be on one line within the site and as such, it was necessary to first paste the information into a text program ( Word in this case ) prior to posting it here.

    That explains what I know of the poor formatting and its causes. For any other concerns, my apologies to you, and any others that were concerned,

    Take care and God Bless, Macavity
    Were you using Firefox to view the site? It screws up on first viewing, you have to refresh the page for the formatting to display properly.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  12. #72
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    Hi Belthasar,

    Yes was using Firefox, but not refreshing but selecting all seemed to straighten it out for me, must enact a similar effect on the page.

    Not withstanding the information was still on the one line for the two tournaments, and required a bit of fiddling,

    Take care and God Bless, Macavity

    PS maybe you can try with the other fields and see if it will work better for you; junior, rapid, lightning etc...

  13. #73
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    Hello everyone,

    The first article is from the section in the ACF constitution titled: By-Laws for ACF tournaments

    26. Where a championship is held in which entry is restricted to a specified
    number of players and/or players above a notional playing strength, the
    following procedure shall be followed to determine which players shall be
    admitted to the championship and which players shall be admitted to any reserves
    tournament to be conducted in conjunction with the championship:

    a. persons completing entry forms shall be required to indicate whether or not
    they are willing to compete in the championship and whether or not they are
    willing to compete in the reserves tournament (if any);

    b. the Federation shall appoint a panel of selectors for the purposes of the
    championship;

    c. as soon as possible after the close of entries, the names of all entrants
    (championship and reserves) shall be conveyed to the selection panel;

    d. the selection panel shall rank all entrants as though they were entrants in
    the same tournament and regardless of whether or not an entrant is willing to
    play in the championship and/or reserves;

    e. the selection panel shall determine a different ranking for each entrant,
    firstly on the basis of playing strength, and secondly (in the case of entrants
    of equal playing strength), by lot;

    f. the field for the championship shall comprise:

    i. those players to whom the right to compete is granted by a Federation By-Law
    dealing specifically with that championship;

    ii. such players as the Federation may invite to participate in the
    championship;

    iii. the winner of the reserves tournament (if any) held in conjunction with the
    previous championship; and

    iv. other entrants in the ranking order determined by the selection panel until
    the agreed maximum number of competitors has been reached or until there are no
    further entrants of at least the agreed minimum playing strength, whichever
    occurs first;

    i.

    g. the field for the reserves tournament shall comprise all entrants who have
    indicated a willingness to compete in the reserves tournament whose ranking (as
    determined by the selectors) is not sufficient to admit them to the
    championship;

    h. a player whose ranking would enable him to compete in the championship shall
    be ineligible to compete in the reserves tournament;

    i. Where an entry for a national championship or reserves tournament is not
    submitted in time to be considered by the selectors for that championship, the
    State Association responsible may reject the entry or refer it to the President
    of the Federation. If so referred, the President shall consider whether there is
    a reasonable chance that the player concerned would have been selected for the
    championship if his or her entry had been considered by the selectors. If the
    President decides that such a reasonable chance exists or if the President is
    unable to decide whether or not such a reasonable chance exists, the player
    concerned shall be ineligible to compete in either the championship or the
    reserves tournament.
    If the President decides that there is not a reasonable
    chance that the player concerned would have been selected for the championship,
    he or she may be admitted to the reserves tournament.
    And the second is the By-Law No.1 which deals with the specifics of the Australian Championship and Major

    BY-LAW NO.1

    Australian Chess Championship & Australian Major

    1. Any other by-law which purports to apply to the Australian Chess Championship
    and the Australian Major shall be valid, but any section which is directly or
    indirectly inconsistent with this by-law shall, in its application to the
    Australian Chess Championship and the Australian Major, have no effect.

    Australian Chess Championship

    2. General Qualifications. An Australian citizen or a person with permanent
    resident status under the Migration Act 1958 (Cwth) who -
    a. has an ACF rating, whether provisional or not, on the list current at
    the close of entries of at least 2150; or
    b. is deemed by the ACF Council to be of an equivalent level of proficiency
    is entitled to play in the Australian Chess Championship.

    3. Special Qualifications. A person who is not entitled to play in the
    Australian Chess Championship under By-law No.1.2 is entitled to play in the
    Australian Chess Championship if the person is -
    a. the current Australian Champion;
    b. the current or immediately previous Australian Junior Champion;
    c. the current or immediately previous Australian Women?s Champion;
    d. the winner of the previous Australian Major;
    e. one person nominated by each State Chess Association, who is, in the
    opinion of the ACF Council, ordinarily resident in that State, if that State
    would not otherwise have a person in the Australian Chess Championship.
    f. a current Champion of a State or Territory that
    has an Association which is affiliated with the ACF;
    g. a junior (according to FIDE definition) who is improving and is deemed by
    the ACF Council to be of sufficient standard;
    h. (i) a person, not being an Australian citizen or a person with permanent
    resident status under the Migration Act 1958 (Cwth), who has a rating of at
    least 2250 on the most recent FIDE rating list and who has played at least
    20 ACF-rated games in the two years before entries close for the Australian
    Championship; or
    (ii) a New Zealand citizen or permanent resident who has a rating of at
    least 2250 on the most recent FIDE rating list;
    provided that the total number of players under this paragraph is not to
    exceed four, being the four highest FIDE rated entrants.

    4. The ACF Council may decide that a person, who is otherwise eligible under
    paragraph h of By-law No.1.3., is ineligible to play in the Australian Chess
    Championship on the ground that their FIDE rating materially overstates
    their present level of proficiency.
    Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 3, a person who is a State or
    Territory champion in the year 2000 shall be eligible to play in the 2002
    Australian Championship"

    5. The ACF Council may, in exceptional circumstances, invite one otherwise
    ineligible player to compete in the Australian Chess Championship.

    6. The Australian Chess Championship shall be a swiss or (double) round-robin
    tournament of at least 11, but no more than 18 rounds.

    Australian Major

    7. The Australian Major shall be open to all persons who have a current ACF
    rating of less than 2150. The Australian Major shall also be open to unrated
    players who are deemed to be of a playing strength less than 2150 ACF, and who
    are not eligible for the Australian Chess Championship through the provisions in
    Section 2.

    8. The Australian Major shall be a swiss or round-robin tournament of at least
    11, but no more than 18 rounds.

    Minor Tournament

    9. State Associations or Territory Associations conducting the Australian
    Championships on behalf of the ACF are strongly encouraged, but not compelled,
    to hold a minor tournament in conjunction with the Championships. An example of
    an appropriate minor tournament would be Under 1600.
    Take care all, and God Bless, Macavity

    Article 26 (i) (bolded) seems confusing at the least, particularly the part in italics?
    What do you all think?

    PS posted this here for easy reference on what we are discussing in this matter, M

  14. #74
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    While it is true my theory may be incorrect, it is also true it may be correct. Furthermore, a theory with some quantitative data behind it is better evidence then a theory with no data.
    Actually our two theories are different interpretations of the same data.

    macavity - on my reading, bylaw 26 is not applicable at all as the Australian Championships is not currently an event in which "entry is restricted to a specified
    number of players and/or players above a notional playing strength".

    26i is clear enough to me though - for those events it applies to, it allows for too-late entries to be added to reserves divisions if they clearly belong there, and otherwise to be rejected.

  15. #75
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by macavity
    Article 26 (i) (bolded) seems confusing at the least, particularly the part in italics?
    What do you all think?
    I agree that that particular section is not as clear as it could be.

    Essentially, I interpret it like this:
    -Suppose you have missed the application deadline for the Championship/Reserves. The selection process for the Championship has already taken place, so you cannot play in that. You *may* be able to play in the Reserves, but only if it is unambiguously clear that you would be entitled to play in the reserves (I assume there is only any doubt in the case of people without an ACF rating).

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