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  1. #46
    CC International Master four four two's Avatar
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    America liberated europe from Nazi Germany?
    Think there might be 20 million dead soviets who would disagree.

  2. #47
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by four four two
    America liberated europe from Nazi Germany?
    Think there might be 20 million dead soviets who would disagree.
    Yep, largely the work of the Red Army, not the red, white and blue army.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  3. #48
    Account Permanently Banned Arrogant-One's Avatar
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    Kevin's Ivory Tower

    Some religions are more susceptible to being perverted to terrorist ends than others Kevin. And Islam, in particular, seems to be predominately used as a vehicle to perpetuate terrorism moreso than any other religion. Howard being a Christian does not in itself mean that he is biased or blind to examples of Christianity being used terrorist ends (which it has in its long history). The fact that Howard is a Christian does not mean that his caution towards the Islamic community is unwarranted. Your attempt to discredit Howard on the basis that he is a Christian shows that you have no valid arguments to dispute the truth or sensibility in him having directed his comments to Australia'a Islamic Community.

  4. #49
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant-One
    And Islam, in particular, seems to be predominately used as a vehicle to perpetuate terrorism moreso than any other religion.
    Alex, your argument stands or fails on the veracity of this statement. Personally I don't think it can be substantiated but I'm interested in hearing it if you want to give it a go.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  5. #50
    CC Candidate Master pballard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant-One
    And Islam, in particular, seems to be predominately used as a vehicle to perpetuate terrorism moreso than any other religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Alex, your argument stands or fails on the veracity of this statement. Personally I don't think it can be substantiated but I'm interested in hearing it if you want to give it a go.
    Noting that AO's comment is in the present tense, I think it bordering on self-evident. Islam IS being used to justify terrorism - one need only look at the Qur'an citations used by Osama. I don't think that is true for any other religion at the moment, at least not to any serious extent.
    http://www.peterballard.org

  6. #51
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pballard
    Noting that AO's comment is in the present tense, I think it bordering on self-evident. Islam IS being used to justify terrorism - one need only look at the Qur'an citations used by Osama. I don't think that is true for any other religion at the moment, at least not to any serious extent.
    Not through direct action but through cultivation, which in creating such negative attitudes is almost as bad, if not worse in the long-term.

    If you wish to see some examples of leading Christians inciting fear, hate, intolerance etc. click here.

    And historically, well... crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings... lovely track record?
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  7. #52
    CC Candidate Master pballard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    If you wish to see some examples of leading Christians inciting fear, hate, intolerance etc. click here.
    Seen it before. Lumps all sorts of Christians in the same basket. And a richly ironic page title, I might add.
    http://www.peterballard.org

  8. #53
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pballard
    Seen it before. Lumps all sorts of Christians in the same basket. And a richly ironic page title, I might add.
    What it amounts to, is that there are dangerous extremists that belong to nearly all groups. It's terribly ignorant of you to only see one of those groups as so problematic and another essentially faultless.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  9. #54
    CC Candidate Master pballard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    What it amounts to, is that there are dangerous extremists that belong to nearly all groups. It's terribly ignorant of you to only see one of those groups as so problematic and another essentially faultless.
    Don't twist my words and don't call me ignorant (without reason).
    http://www.peterballard.org

  10. #55
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pballard
    Don't twist my words and don't call me ignorant (without reason).
    OK, sorry. But at least have a think about the universal facts before picking out just one aspect of a problem.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  11. #56
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pballard
    Noting that AO's comment is in the present tense, I think it bordering on self-evident. Islam IS being used to justify terrorism - one need only look at the Qur'an citations used by Osama. I don't think that is true for any other religion at the moment, at least not to any serious extent.
    Depends what you call serious I guess. I think Bush's manipulation by the religious right in the USA could qualify.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  12. #57
    CC Candidate Master pballard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Depends what you call serious I guess. I think Bush's manipulation by the religious right in the USA could qualify.
    I was commenting on terrorism, which I would define as deliberate killing of civilians with an aim to cause terror.

    Yes, some Christians have misused Christian teaching to justify the war on Iraq, as I have already pointed out earlier in this thread. For all that is wrong with that (and there is a lot), they (or at least the great majority) have not endorsed the deliberate killing of civilians; and are motivated by a desire to improve Iraq rather than destroy it.
    http://www.peterballard.org

  13. #58
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pballard
    I was commenting on terrorism, which I would define as deliberate killing of civilians with an aim to cause terror.

    Yes, some Christians have misused Christian teaching to justify the war on Iraq, as I have already pointed out earlier in this thread. For all that is wrong with that (and there is a lot), they (or at least the great majority) have not endorsed the deliberate killing of civilians; and are motivated by a desire to improve Iraq rather than destroy it.
    Which part of the war on Iraq doen't fit in with the definition of terrorism you supplied?
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  14. #59
    CC Candidate Master pballard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    OK, sorry.
    Accepted, and in turn apologies for being harsh. Not the worst I've been called, but I wasn't expecting it from you.

    But at least have a think about the universal facts before picking out just one aspect of a problem.
    What makes you think I hadn't?
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  15. #60
    CC Candidate Master pballard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Which part of the war on Iraq doen't fit in with the definition of terrorism you supplied?
    When they captured Saddam.

    When they were involved in direct fighting with Iraqi troops.

    When they were driving supply convoys and got attacked by guerillas.

    When they captured prisoners rather than executed them.

    When they held elections.

    ...
    http://www.peterballard.org

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