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  1. #31
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel
    It's all very well, this holier-than-thou attitude towards wesstern leaders, but once theres a terrorist attack on Australian mainland you might not be so smug.
    When you say terrorism, what do you mean?

    cheers Fg7

  2. #32
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel
    It's all very well, this holier-than-thou attitude towards wesstern leaders, but once theres a terrorist attack on Australian mainland you might not be so smug.
    Since you are calling people holy......
    Can you show me a modern western leader who doesn't rely on some holy divine intervention?

    Would you call these beliefs rational?

    cheers Fg7

  3. #33
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    That's awesome Kevin, I really hope it does get published!
    It did! I was quite surprised.

    That said I have no problem with either the position stated by Frosty above (that neither religion is responsible for keeping their nutters under control) or that stated by pballard (that both religions are thus responsible). Just so long as there is consistency.

    I also think that pballard's point that Islamic terrorism is a greater current danger is fine. I just have a strong dislike of generalisations by politicians, especially when they can harden into black-and-white dogma in the minds of gullible voters. Howard has an especially dodgy record in this regard, for instance often making comments that claim to be on behalf of all Australians when they're not.

  4. #34
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    It did! I was quite surprised.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  5. #35
    CC Candidate Master pballard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    That said I have no problem with either the position stated by Frosty above (that neither religion is responsible for keeping their nutters under control) or that stated by pballard (that both religions are thus responsible). Just so long as there is consistency.
    That's not quite what I said, or at least meant. Religions have a responsibility to denounce the nutters and their beliefs, which is not the same as saying they have a responsibility to keep them under control.
    http://www.peterballard.org

  6. #36
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Listen, the thing is right, I didn't bloody come to this country to see it get bombed. We all came here to have a better life. Now this mob, these mohammedans, if they have such a big issue - I reckon their friggin' sheikhs or what-have-you have to pull them in and control the freaks. We simply don't want their kind here mouthing off that Australia has to be an Islamic state, blah, blah, blah.

    And similarly, there are some Jesus Freaks out there who do deserve to be locked up forever.

    Having said all that, I don't support the proposed anti-terror laws cos they'll only cost us more.

    AR

  7. #37
    CC Candidate Master Grendel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Well that's all right then. They would never lie. I suppose you have heard of watergate and children overboard?
    i'm not saying our governments don't lie, just simply pointing out that my opinion is not ultra-right but probably more mainstream than yours.

  8. #38
    CC Candidate Master Grendel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pballard
    All true. But to say "Al Qaeda were planting bombs and crashing aeroplanes way before any western governments waded into the middle east" is incorrect.
    i think you're being a little pedantic

  9. #39
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pballard
    That's not quite what I said, or at least meant. Religions have a responsibility to denounce the nutters and their beliefs, which is not the same as saying they have a responsibility to keep them under control.
    Yep. Fair enough. I should have thrown in the words "try to".

  10. #40
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel
    i'm not saying our governments don't lie, just simply pointing out that my opinion is not ultra-right but probably more mainstream than yours.
    It is all relative, Grendel. Your implied appeal to the masses counts for nought.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  11. #41
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel
    i think you're being a little pedantic
    Actually, the word you are thinking of there is "correct".
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  12. #42
    CC Candidate Master Grendel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by four four two
    America feeds the monster[Iraq],then when the monster gets to big for them they say,"dont worry we will kill the monster for you".What a policeman!

    American foreign policy through the cold war ,as well as russian,chinese,french,etc purposely built up ditactorships to suit their own ends.When these dictatorships had served their purposes they either cut off the finance and hoped for it to die,or they overthrew it and put a new nasty puppet in place. Oh,and along the way millions of people died...
    If this is the actions of a "good policemen" I would hate to see what the consequences of a "bad cop" would be.
    in comparison to previous empires, the american empire is fairly tame and certainly more judicious. it does better than the soviet empire did, and probably better than the british and french empires. it's a relatively benevolent empire and could have abused its strength far more than it has. it set up the united nations, including unisef and who. it conducts a lot more self examination than other superpowers. rather an american superpower than a soviet one.

  13. #43
    CC Candidate Master Grendel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    The 20th century was regarded as the most civilised century of humankind. It was also a century in which more people died from war and its effects then a combined total from all previous known wars and centuries.
    however, it was america that liberated europe from nazi occupation and turned back the japanese in asia.

    Regardless of your irrational claim about a left wing conspiracy, one thing is certain.
    not a left wing conspiracy, but a left-wing industry. some leftist journals deliberately sensationalisation their claims against western governments in order to create a market niche.

    All historians, regardless of which side of politics they are on, agree that the 20th century was the most brutal century ever in the history of humankind. If this is the case, then what seperates crimes perpetuated by the state, as oppossed to crimes perpetuated by individuals, against humanity? That said, who defines terrorism and who are the real terrorists? Who classifies what terrorists are? What exactly is terrorism?

    cheers Fg7
    we define terrorism because we need to protect our interests, not against an imagined foe but a real enemy, trying to subvert our interests. it's fortunate we live in a wealthy country with interests to protect, but would you rather live in poverty? its a dog eat dog world out there and we must defend our interests

  14. #44
    CC Candidate Master Grendel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    Since you are calling people holy......
    Can you show me a modern western leader who doesn't rely on some holy divine intervention?
    chirac

    Would you call these beliefs rational?

    cheers Fg7
    no

  15. #45
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel
    however, it was america that liberated europe from nazi occupation and turned back the japanese in asia.
    You really must get out more.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

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