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  1. #286
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    All this talk about states - anyone would think we were a federation?

    Does chess have to be a federation? Why can't we just be a country?
    As a long-term resident of the ACT I ask the same question. Unfortunately, Australia's political history pushes us in a different direction. After Federation of the States into an Australian Commonwealth in 1901 and for the next few decades there was a fair degree of belief in Australia as a nation and even in the abolition of the States. Recently that has tended to be replaced by ever more strident States' rights propaganda. The current Federal government has so little regard for Australia as a nation that its leader lives by Sydney Harbour instead of in Canberra. Add to this the penchant for chess administrators to be rather conservative and you have the ACF.

    A bit over-simplified but don't get me started on this line or I may never stop .

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  2. #287
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    A bit over-simplified but don't get me started on this line or I may never stop
    Concider yourself started, so, don't stop. Get all the other states to gang up on one. Force that state to to XYZ. Then bring it back in and kick another out.

    OK OK I know it is crude and now that they all know what you are going to do, they might just kick you out. So what, then you can do a Latham.

  3. #288
    CC International Master four four two's Avatar
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    Matt,if youre going to quote me at least put in the WHOLE bloody sentence.
    What I said was "Im not a great fan of how the ACF is being currently run,but I can tell you now I certainly dont want to see the domestic chess scene in australia being run by a business man for his own personal gain."
    I then went on to say"A true national chess organisation should be about promoting the game for the sake of the game,not for the sake of money."

    The point I was trying to make which you have failed to see is that a public chess organisation ,which the ACF is ,should be about promoting chess CULTURE and that despite its flaws should always be the national organisation,it should not be replaced by a private business whose sole concern will be money. DC isnt organising his national schools competition to promote chess culture,he is doing it to promote his business. I have no problem with DC running a coaching business,I do however have a problem with him running a psuedo "national" tournament on the pretense that he is promoting chess culture when in fact all he is doing is making money for his coaching company.There is plenty of money for DC to make from coaching,he doesnt need to supplant an ACF tournament .Many other major coaching companies are quite happy to work with the ACF and their state affiliates,they dont feel thay have to work against the ACF to run a successful business.

    As for the strong players playing for prize money,chess for these players isnt merely a hobby as it is for your average club player, its more akin to a career whether it be part time or full time. The amount of hours of study that a person has to put in to become a 2200-2400 player is quite substantial,not that disimilar from a 3 year uni degree. If you take an average 7 round tournament,a 2200-2400 player would be looking to share the 1st and 2nd prize money amounting to about 600 -700 dollars with another strong player . How many uni graduates would be prepared to work in their field of training for $13-15 dollars an hour? Because remember winning a tournament is WORK.
    If you were a 2200-2400 player would you prefer to make $30 an hour coaching or play in a tournament to make $13-15 an hour?

    Having said that ,in victoria ,IM West,IM Froehlich and IM Rujevic play against each other in a number of open tournaments each year at the Melbourne Chess Club.The combined 1st,2nd and third prize money in these tournaments is usually around $900-$1000. I have no problem with them winning the top 3 prizes as they normally do,they have earned every cent.
    As to why many strong players in NSW are fairly inactive ,I cant say. Maybe its the prizemoney on offer,maybe they are overly protective of their rating. But to think that they have an obligation to play in your average club tournament is totally unrealistic,if they dont want to play thats their choice.

  4. #289
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    It is an interesting situation where it is OK for someone to make money as a coach, but not from a tournament.

    Years ago I remember being hauled over the coals for making money as a coach.

  5. #290
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    What is the GOAL, the PURPOSE of the ACF running a tournament. Be it a state or national or just a local event?

    Perhaps the GOAL is;
    - to get the best players/teams in an area to compete against each other.
    - to encourage more people to play chess.
    - to encourage chess players to play more often.

    So whatever it is - let's say that you could ACHIEVE that goal without actually DOING anything. Eg. Someone else could get all the best players to compete together.

    Is that not better than doing it yourself and achieving that goal? Because then you have time to work towards a DIFFERENT goal, one that isn't being achieved - like improving the retention rate of 18-25y.o. players. Or - developing more GM's....or anything else.

    If my GOAL is to make $1 and someone else offered to do it for me...I'd say "thanks".

    So what are the CV goals? WHY do they run an interschool chess event? Can they achieve the goals by NOT running it and letting someone else? How does that hurt?

    Perhaps the CV goals are about money? In which case how is that different from a business?
    Last edited by ChessGuru; 31-10-2005 at 11:52 PM.

  6. #291
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    Just to let you know - the TASMANIAN Schools Championships were held today. We had reports on BOTH Television networks and will be in BOTH the major newspapers tomorrow.

    I think that ALL of the TCA's goals for the year were achieved without the TCA having to raise a finger. How has this hurt?


  7. #292
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    OK - I give in. From what the feeling seems to be it is just the NAME of the event which pisses people off....so please choose one for me:

    "The Chess Kids tournament for children who attend an educational institution from anywhere in the country of Australia."

    "Chess Kids competition for children wanting to play chess."

    "Not the ACF Schools Championships"

    "The Cordover Event"

    I don't really give a damn what the event is called....if someone can make up a good name I'll use it. I need to have the following ELEMENTS though to ensure that people know what it is:

    - GEOGRAPHICALLY UNRESTRICED (because i'd like players from around Australia)
    - SCHOOLS (because it is for schools)
    - COMPETITIVE ELEMENT (Because i'd like to award a prize at the end)
    - SUCCINCT (because i'd like to write it in big letters and still fit across an A4 page)

  8. #293
    CC International Master four four two's Avatar
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    ChessKids Australian School Challenge,is that good enough for you punk?

  9. #294
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    A geographic element is wholely unnecessary and causes confusion. Just leave that out and it's fine.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  10. #295
    CC FIDE Master
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    I will wait for unanimous agreement then make the change.

  11. #296
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by four four two
    Having said that ,in victoria ,IM West,IM Froehlich and IM Rujevic play against each other in a number of open tournaments each year at the Melbourne Chess Club.The combined 1st,2nd and third prize money in these tournaments is usually around $900-$1000. I have no problem with them winning the top 3 prizes as they normally do,they have earned every cent.
    As to why many strong players in NSW are fairly inactive ,I cant say. Maybe its the prizemoney on offer,maybe they are overly protective of their rating. But to think that they have an obligation to play in your average club tournament is totally unrealistic,if they dont want to play thats their choice.
    Finally, at least something positive from you. It is true that it is a player's choice whether he/she plays or not. Especially given that some players were taught how to play chess not in Australia, like in my case.


    You are asking why 2200-2400 players are not playing in Sydney? Personally I want to play but there is no competition where I can play. Even NSW championship is a joke. There used to be one good competition, the Grade matches. Have u seen what the NSW council did to the grade matches?

    I think here we come to the main problem which is related to what you have said before, which I think is wrong. There is no way chess is getting good administrators who will be working for free. There is a choice between bad administrators and people who have money interests in chess, like DC.

    I personally do not like some methods DC is using, for instance misleading people. However, general approach is good. Nobody has done anything like what he has done so far. Take things on merit, not just because u don't like a particular guy. Do not be envious that he is making money on chess. So what? Make him for each dollar he earns produce in addition at least 1 dollar value for the society.

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChessGuru
    I will wait for unanimous agreement then make the change.
    Nice one. Like that's ever going to happen (unanimous agreement, of course)

  13. #298
    CC International Master four four two's Avatar
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    Drug,most of the worlds national and state administrators volunteer for free,they run efficiently and provide oppurtunities for their local chess players to play well organised tournaments. The question isnt whether the ACF needs reforming,but whether it should be replaced by a private business venture.

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by four four two
    Drug,most of the worlds national and state administrators volunteer for free,they run efficiently and provide oppurtunities for their local chess players to play well organised tournaments. The question isnt whether the ACF needs reforming,but whether it should be replaced by a private business venture.
    This is exactly why they are so increadibly bad. This is the main reason why the chess world got divided in 1993. This is one of the reasons why there is no sponsorship in chess in the highest level. Have u seen what these id... are doing again? They changing formats of competitions. Are you saying that it is effective management?

    Edit: I am talking about 1) FIDE changing the system of world championship after the process has started to which top GMs are opposing and 2) changing format of the next Olympiad, from 14 rounds to 13 rounds.
    Last edited by Vlad; 01-11-2005 at 12:49 PM.

  15. #300
    CC International Master four four two's Avatar
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    Do you consider the British chess federation to be incredibly bad,or the French,Dutch,Spanish,German,etc?

    FIDE, which is a world body as opposed to a national or state [regional] has been hijacked by a half crazed central asian "business man/politician" as his own personal plaything.Is that a good thing,is Kirsan efficient? The regular debacles FIDE finds itself in nowadays is due to it being run by a businessman who has no sense of accountability.

    As for high level chess not being sponsored lets look at Linares[sponsored by spanish business man Rentero], Wijk an Zee [sponsored by the business Corus], the MTel masters in Sofia was another major chess tournament with a company name in its title.

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