National Open Schools Championships

[four four two]

Can I be your fan FCP? I promise I wont stalk you,just a couple of photos to put on my mantle would be enough.

[Frank Walker]

Nice little trick Guru, making kids think they are famous in order to ge more money!

[ChessGuru]

Frank - the system suggested worked very well in Tasmania with the Tas Junior Championships - clubs and individuals became very involved and enjoyed themselves immensley.

At the end of the day the clubs and Tas Chess Assn. were far better of than I was (financially). But we all had a good time.

Why the relcutance to pull together for the good of chess?

[Rincewind]

Why the relcutance to pull together for the good of chess?

What is the reluctance to choosing event names which are unambiguous and don't pretend to be something they are not?

[ursogr8]

What is the reluctance to choosing event names which are unambiguous and don't pretend to be something they are not?

Baz

Perhaps our chess community could find some common ground if you took up the opportunity that the GURU offered in this post to mac where he said "Would you be OK if I called the event the "chess kids schools championships of Victoria" as you have quoted? Or in your mind I am not allowed to use the word Victora? I'd just like it narrowed down for me...".

Over to you; if you choose.
Can you post a range of titles you would find satisfactory; for a Victorian event; for an all States event?


starter

[Rincewind]

Over to you; if you choose.
Can you post a range of titles you would find satisfactory; for a Victorian event; for an all States event?

Replace the words "Victorian" or "State" (where ever they occur) with "Chess Kids" and I'd be reasonably happy. The way I see it there are at least three problems

(1) The names are too easily mistaken for real titles
(2) The names are reported as real titles in the media
(3) The guru genuinely believes his titles mean something

Quite simply, the words "State" or "Victorian" should not exist in the title of a chess event at all unless it is being held under the auspices of Chess Victoria. Likewise, National or Australian should not occur in the title of his events unless those events are endorsed by the ACF.

[ursogr8]

Replace the words "Victorian" or "State" (where ever they occur) with "Chess Kids" and I'd be reasonably happy. The way I see it there are at least three problems

(1) The names are too easily mistaken for real titles
(2) The names are reported as real titles in the media
(3) The guru genuinely believes his titles mean something

Quite simply, the words "State" or "Victorian" should not exist in the title of a chess event at all unless it is being held under the auspices of Chess Victoria. Likewise, National or Australian should not occur in the title of his events unless those events are endorsed by the ACF.

Thanks for the response Baz.

It will be interesting to see if they draw comment from others who have a marketing flair (not me, I am a superseded mathematician ).

I don't know the GURU's tournaments well enough to judge if your suggestions are appropriate. For example, does he restrict (finals) entry to only those Victorian teams that have qualified through a Chess Kids qualifier. Or does he OPEN it to anyone with the readies? I suspect the latter because his inducement to EHPS to participate; but I could easily be wrong on this. If it is virtually unrestricted entry then of course Chess Kids is an inappropriate descriptor and it is tempting to see Victorian as the appropriate descriptor. Perhaps the middle ground is the eccentric Mexican as a descriptor.

I notice you have dropped your (earlier) suggested 'Challenge' in lieu of 'Championship'. This is wise since 'Challenge' definitely does not convey the nature of the national event proposed.

Finally, I take it your (3) above was just your mischievious side coming out?
Surely the GURU is allowed a little passion to follow what he believes in (with some elements perchance worng judgements), else we will all fall at this criterion.

regards
starter

[Rincewind]

I don't know the GURU's tournaments well enough to judge if your suggestions are appropriate. For example, does he restrict (finals) entry to only those Victorian teams that have qualified through a Chess Kids qualifier. Or does he OPEN it to anyone with the readies? I suspect the latter because his inducement to EHPS to participate; but I could easily be wrong on this. If it is virtually unrestricted entry then of course Chess Kids is an inappropriate descriptor and it is tempting to see Victorian as the appropriate descriptor. Perhaps the middle ground is the eccentric Mexican as a descriptor.

The words State, Victorian, National or Australian should be considered completely unacceptable.

I notice you have dropped your (earlier) suggested 'Challenge' in lieu of 'Championship'. This is wise since 'Challenge' definitely does not convey the nature of the national event proposed.

Challenge is a good descriptor but I don't believe on can really stop the director of Chess Kids holding the Chess Kids Championships.

Finally, I take it your (3) above was just your mischievious side coming out?
Surely the GURU is allowed a little passion to follow what he believes in (with some elements perchance worng judgements), else we will all fall at this criterion.

I didn;t say his passion was the problem. However, a genuine belief in the validity of his 'titles' is more than passion. It shows a disregard for proper channels and should be a warning to chess administrators everywhere.

[Dozy]

Thanks for the response Baz.

It will be interesting to see if they draw comment from others who have a marketing flair (not me, I am a superseded mathematician ). . . .

Don't underestimate yourself, Starter. Next time you get the blues just remind yourself that, in any society, it's the mathematicians who count!

[ursogr8]

The words State, Victorian, National or Australian should be considered completely unacceptable.



Challenge is a good descriptor but I don't believe on can really stop the director of Chess Kids holding the Chess Kids Championships.


<snip>

Baz

Ok

If we are agreed he can use the words 'Chess Kids',

and

if we are agreed he can use the word 'Championships,

how now does he distinguish the FINALS event that he holds in Victoria for Victorians, without the ambiguity you were annoyed about?

and

how now does he distinguish the FINALS event that he holds for All States, without the ambiguity you were annoyed about?

starter

[Rincewind]

how now does he distinguish the FINALS event that he holds in Victoria for Victorians, without the ambiguity you were annoyed about?

and

how now does he distinguish the FINALS event that he holds for All States, without the ambiguity you were annoyed about?

He calls one

Chess Kids Championship Qualifiers

The entry rules stipulate the entrants are from the state of Victoria.

He calls the other

Chess Kids Championships

Again the entry rules stipulate the interstate 'qualification' protocol.

Doing so will greatly lessen any ambiguity as to the endorsement of the event and further to this the origaniser should be careful as to how these names appear in any media coverage of the event.

[ursogr8]

He calls one

Chess Kids Championship Qualifiers

The entry rules stipulate the entrants are from the state of Victoria.

He calls the other

Chess Kids Championships

Again the entry rules stipulate the interstate 'qualification' protocol.

Doing so will greatly lessen any ambiguity as to the endorsement of the event and further to this the origaniser should be careful as to how these names appear in any media coverage of the event.

Baz

I have received advice that leads me to believe that you (as a school, or group) can play in the All States event even if your team has not previously played in CK events.
Hence, both Qualifier at the State level, and CK at either State or All States level do not describe (without ambiguity) who can play.

We return then to the Guru's request that he made and I referenced here.


Have you other suggestions?

[Rincewind]

Baz

I have received advice that leads me to believe that you (as a school, or group) can play in the All States event even if your team has not previously played in CK events.
Hence, both Qualifier at the State level, and CK at either State or All States level do not describe (without ambiguity) who can play.

We return then to the Guru's request that he made and I referenced here.


Have you other suggestions?

Starter,

It is not the purpose of an event title to describe (with or without ambiguity) who can play. Those details are complicated and best left to the tournament conditions of entry. Therefore, there exists no logical problem with the names I proposed.

[four four two]

Starter,if any school is prepared to pay the cash[$1000] then Im sure DC will be happy to let them "qualify".

[Libby]

Where do we go if Chess Kids re-registers under the Business Names -

Chess Kids Australia
Chess Kids Victoria
Chess Kids South Australia
Chess Kids Tasmania?

We'd best start working on an education pack for schools & media to understand that

"Chess Kids Australia Interschool Championships"

are not the

Chess Kids Australian Interschool Championships etc etc etc

Does anyone own the words "national" or "australia" or "state" etc when prefaced by a company or sponsorship logo?

(A genuine question out of curiosity rather than mischief )