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  1. #31
    CC Candidate Master jase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by four four two
    $160 entry fee when top prize in the major is $1000 is a TOTAL RIP OFF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    Given that the minor is u/1800 this year, there will almost certainly be a smaller proportion in the Major than previously, so a $4000 prize pool looks excellent to me.
    I've snipped the diatribe from 442 down to his actual point.
    I agree.

    I think that a $1,000 first prize for a $160 entry fee is poor value. Whilst I support the principle of entry fees in the lower categories providing a subsidy for the top echelon, the prize fund/entry fee ratio in the Major goes beyond what I would consider appropriate.

    Entries into the Major presently total almost 60. Entry fees might amount to about $10,000, of which less than 40% will be returned via prizemoney.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase
    Entries into the Major presently total almost 60. Entry fees might amount to about $10,000, of which less than 40% will be returned via prizemoney.
    I'll just point out that a tournament can only advertise prizes based on the minimum number that they might expect to play. Given that only 87 players took part in the Open and Minor in Mt Buller, the minimum number that you might budget on for the 2006 Major is probably 40. Even in Adelaide in 2004, about 70 played the Major, but there was *no Minor*.

  3. #33
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    please take discussions about major prizes to the major thread, this is for the minor tournament

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    and the first round pairings would be if everyone is playing the first round (assuming seed number 1 is white)

    Code:
    (Draw)
    A minor point to note is that under the Swiss pairing rules

    If no reliable rating is known for a player the arbiters should make an estimation of it as accurately as possible before the start of the tournament.

    Often arbiters just drop the unrateds to the bottom and in alphabetical order, by putting them in as blank whereupon Swiss Perfect treats them as being rated zero. In the absence of other information this is reaonable (though probably done through not knowing the rules) since on the balance of probability an unrated player would be weaker than the rated players. However it's open to the arbiter to seed the unrated players above the bottom.

  5. #35
    CC International Master four four two's Avatar
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    Unhappy Less than 50% is a joke...

    Pax, in terms of numbers Mt Buller was simply a failure. It had one of the lowest turn outs in the last 20 years.

    Brisbane,as a location, was NEVER in any doubt of getting more entries than Mt Buller. The fact that the organisers of Brisbane fiddled with the rating criteria for the "minor" ,thus reducing the likely size of the field for the major,is a problem that they should have considered. But then again they may feel that the players in the major will simply take what ever is offered to them.

    Any organiser who values the competitors should offer at least 50% of the total entry fees back in prizemoney...you can only squeeze so much blood from a stone.

  6. #36
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Someone else stated:

    Championship $8000 prizes
    30 entrants, of whom 10 get in free as GMs, IMs, WIM
    Leaves 20 folk paying $200 each for a total of $4,000.
    Percentage 200%.

    Major has $3800 prizes and probably a 50% return to winner-group.

    Minor has $1950 prizes a less than 50% return.
    This disparity is indecent.

    When is the ACF going to release a "Recommended Procol for Prize Allocation." It shouldn't be maditory, but used as a guide. In the meantime we get this (and other) rip-off.

    That part of the prize pool contributed by fees, should be divided pro rata of full entry equivalents. - ie prizes proportional to the collected fees from each division/section/grade. However, the culture is to have a BIG top end attractor. The simple solution is, use sponsors cash to pay only the top end. Face it, the majority of us are not where the sponsors wish to see there money go. They want a big headline and prestigue. Make sure they get it. The other 90% of the players just want to play chess and maybe win a dollars from there peers. That 90% do not generally feel positive about being paracitised.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    This disparity is indecent.

    When is the ACF going to release a "Recommended Procol for Prize Allocation." It shouldn't be maditory, but used as a guide. In the meantime we get this (and other) rip-off.
    Come off it Sweeney. This is the National Championship, not the bloody Common Man.

    The big shebang is the Australian Championship, and the majority of participants appreciate that they are (in part) supporting Australia's Premier Chess event by playing in the Major and Minor events. Part of the attraction of playing in the Minor is being able to watch Australia's top players play, and participating in the atmosphere of the whole event.

    The funny thing is that we don't seem to have this discussion for "Open" events where the top prizes typically massively outweigh rating prizes. Why? Because Joe Bloggs rated 1650 has a theoretical (but practically non-existent) chance of winning one of those prizes.

    The main point though, is that people vote with their feet. The prizefund was advertised well in advance, and the players are turning up in record numbers. What does that say?

    p.s How many players turned up to the Common Man again?

  8. #38
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    The big shebang is the Australian Championship, and the majority of participants appreciate that they are (in part) supporting Australia's Premier Chess event by playing in the Major and Minor events.
    What do you mean by "appreciate?" 1. they know something or 2. they like something?

    They certainly know they are playing AT the primo chess event but they also know that that are not IN the primo event.


    Part of the attraction of playing in the Minor is being able to watch Australia's top players play,
    {yawn} and that would be 10% of we 90%
    and participating in the atmosphere of the whole event.
    True, but why do they have to subsidise the top end? Participating is one wish, but paying a subsidy is a rip-off.

    The funny thing is that we don't seem to have this discussion for "Open" events where the top prizes typically massively outweigh rating prizes. Why?
    Actually we do and have had those debates - must have been before you lobbed in here.
    The main point though, is that people vote with their feet. The prizefund was advertised well in advance, and the players are turning up in record numbers. What does that say?
    It says nothing much. The reason peaople are going to the event will not be those things alone. It will be different combinations of different attactions, some that you have not mentioned.

    p.s How many players turned up to the Common Man again?
    Yes, I have already agreed (elsewhere) that the format is a dud for putting bums on seats. I tried it (three years is a good trial) and it failed. However, I have a new idea, wait and see.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    {yawn} and that would be 10% of we 90%
    Rubbish. It's a major factor.

    True, but why do they have to subsidise the top end? Participating is one wish, but paying a subsidy is a rip-off.
    Without some subsidy, there wouldn't *be* a top end. How many GMs and IMs are going to turn up for a Championship with 2 grand prizemoney? And who is going to turn up to a side event when the Championship has Bolens as top seed (sorry Jonny)?

    Actually we do and have had those debates - must have been before you lobbed in here.
    I've been here since the beginning mate. It's funny, now that you mention it, I *do* remember you bleating on a bit. I don't remember a serious debate though.

  10. #40
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    I've been here since the beginning mate. It's funny, now that you mention it, I *do* remember you bleating on a bit. I don't remember a serious debate though.
    pax
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  11. #41
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    pax
    CC Grandmaster


    Join Date: June 2004

    You realise you only have to register to post. Guests can read.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  12. #42
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Rubbish. [gawping at GMs leaning on their elbows is] a major factor.
    There is usually between 0 and a dozen onlookers to a GM game. Yes, even I take a Captain Cook. On average it is about 4 of the usual suspects. The vast majority don't give a stuff.

    Without some subsidy, there wouldn't *be* a top end.
    Not quite right. Without big prizes there would not be a top end. I am saying that that prize monoey should ONLY come from sponsorships, not by milking the ordinary players.
    I've been here since the beginning mate. It's funny, now that you mention it, I *do* remember you bleating on a bit. I don't remember a serious debate though.
    It is usual for narrow minded conservatives to say that a debate is not "serious" when they don't agree with the arguements.

  13. #43
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    You realise you only have to register to post. Guests can read.
    No, for you see I've been living under a rock.

    With my eyes closed and my fingers in my ears.

    On Mars.


    Idiot!!!

    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  14. #44
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    No, for you see I've been living under a rock.

    With my eyes closed and my fingers in my ears.

    On Mars.


    Idiot!!!

    Such self-deprecation really isn't necessary.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  15. #45
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    On Mars.
    how did you get broadband on mars?

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