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  1. #151
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    All thisn demonstrates your unsuitability to hold high office Bill. It's quite clear to everyone that she was not attacking you personally. She was referring to your actions in your capacity as President. Period!
    You cannot seperate the office from the person in that way. She called my arguments untruthful, i.e that I was lying. That is an attack on me personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Your behaviour is totally improper. This is what it has come down to. Anyone who criticises the NSWCA is threatened will legal action. FMD! What a joke.
    That is incorrect. I threatened no legal action. I never mentioned legal action.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    You cannot seperate the office from the person in that way. She called my arguments untruthful, i.e that I was lying. That is an attack on me personally.
    Saying that someone said something untruthful does not imply they are a liar. A liar is someone who deliberately says things that they know are untruthful. I did not say that you were deliberately untruthful, and I certainly do not believe that.

    By your own admission, there were many facts about this matter that you were unaware of. This meant that in trying to argue your case you have said some things that have turned out not to be 100% factual ie untrue.

    I would be very interested in a reply to my previous post which is actually related to the topic we are trying to discuss.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    You cannot seperate the office from the person in that way. She called my arguments untruthful, i.e that I was lying. That is an attack on me personally.
    Obviously I can’t post the comments here to explain what I mean, but that is not how I interpret that statement. The way it was written, it looks like an ‘and/or’ statement with one option being that they where untruthful. Saying its possible someone made an untruthful statement is not defamatory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    That is incorrect. I threatened no legal action. I never mentioned legal action.
    Not in words, but I think there is an implied threat. If you say ‘this is defamatory, I insist it is removed immediately’, I think there is an implication of possible legal action.

  4. #154
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Bird
    Not in words, but I think there is an implied threat. If you say ‘this is defamatory, I insist it is removed immediately’, I think there is an implication of possible legal action.
    Bill is a man of infinite contortions.

    You can say one thing and he'll bend it every which way possible to suit his ends. You are absolutely correct. And this was certainly his gist to me in our PMs. This is why I was moved to remove a citation.

    AR

  5. #155
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Bird
    Not in words, but I think there is an implied threat. If you say ‘this is defamatory, I insist it is removed immediately’, I think there is an implication of possible legal action.
    If you check my email you will see I never used the words insist. I used the word request.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  6. #156
    CC International Master WhiteElephant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Hey mate listen, can I do an email interview with you on poker and why you play it? I am doing one with Kezza. Is that OK??

    AR
    Sure. PM me. Except that I am not particularly experienced with casino poker. More of a BJ player just getting into poker recently.

  7. #157
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonruski
    If this is all true and the arbiters decision goes against the very first words in the FIDE Laws of Chess, I believe we are in fact entitled to an appeal from an appeals committee (as is very clearly stated in the grade match rule booklet).
    I would contend that the FIDE Laws of Chess (July 2001) describe the actual playing of the game and have nothing to do with the structure, draw, pairings or format of the event.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonruski
    Andrew Bird has previously posted the email from the Secretary of the NSWCA denying such an appeal. How does the NSWCA justify this?
    The grade match booklet states in the section concerning Disputes and appeals:
    Appeals against the director’s decision may then be made concerning:
    (a) The Laws of Chess - to the appeals committee, via the NSWCA or the DOP.
    (b) The Competition Rules - to the NSWCA.


    Quote Originally Posted by lemonruski
    By the way, if we have an appeal against the Laws of Chess being broken which has been denied by the arbiter, it is NOT up to the NSWCA Council to decide whether it is valid, their only role is to form the appeals committee.
    The FIDE Laws of Chess (July 2001) were not broken as they make no mention of pairings or the format of events. They only cover the actual playing of the game.
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 21-07-2005 at 12:32 PM.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase

    A rule book cannot cover every circumstance. The very first words of the FIDE Laws of Chess state:

    The Laws of Chess cannot cover all possible situations that may arise during a game, nor can they regulate all administrative questions. Where cases are not precisely regulated by an Article of the Laws, it should be possible to reach a correct decision by studying analogous situations
    I believe that the preparation of the draw would come under administrative questions.

    If an administrative question is not covered by the Laws of Chess, these Laws state that a decision should be made by studying analogous situtations. To aid in this "study" they produced the FIDE Handbook. It is full of all the administrative questions not covered by the Laws of Chess.

    I assume that the NSWCA Council followed the Laws of Chess and used this to come to a decision?

    And once again, I would like to state that if we put forward an appeal because we feel the Laws of Chess have been broken, it is not up to the NSWCA Council to decide if we are right or wrong, their only role is the formation of the appeals committee.

  9. #159
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonruski
    I believe that the preparation of the draw would come under administrative questions.

    If an administrative question is not covered by the Laws of Chess, these Laws state that a decision should be made by studying analogous situtations. To aid in this "study" they produced the FIDE Handbook. It is full of all the administrative questions not covered by the Laws of Chess.

    I assume that the NSWCA Council followed the Laws of Chess and used this to come to a decision?

    And once again, I would like to state that if we put forward an appeal because we feel the Laws of Chess have been broken, it is not up to the NSWCA Council to decide if we are right or wrong, their only role is the formation of the appeals committee.
    We are clearly getting nowhere here.
    If you wish to pursue the matter further I suggest you take it up with the NSWCA Council.
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 21-07-2005 at 04:20 PM. Reason: spelling
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  10. #160
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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  11. #161
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    AR, I visited your blog and then seen at the top "next blog" thinking I may get Matt's or TCN.

    But low and behold (again) it was called Bullsh.t and was a lesbian porno/political site with plenty of approp photos - sorry to say but left your site for dead.

    It only needed chess and I would have subscribed.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    We are clearly getting nowhere here.
    If you wish to persue the matter further I suggest you take it up with the NSWCA Council.
    I would have to agree that this is going nowhere. Even though we have shown everyone how unfair and illogical this decision is, I very much doubt that the Council will be willing to admit their mistake.

    The outcome of any appeal would of course no longer affect the results of the competition. The reason we choose to pursue this anyway is because we would like the council to see that our withdrawal was due to them not following their own competition rules, not any wrongdoing by us. The council is trying to paint us as the bad guys, when all we have done is withdrawn from a competition when it was not run according to the way it was advertised.

    And to anyone who thinks we have made too much of a big deal over such a "small" change, why don't you put yourselves in our shoes. You are playing in a tournament, where you are placed equal first. The draw for the finals has been published. For no good reason, after the first round of a 3 round final, the draw is changed to drastically favour the team you are currently tied with. This draw change was suggested directly to the grade match arbiter by the other captain. The state association refuses your request for a fair appeal regarding this matter. Can you really see yourself ignoring this disregard for the rules and letting them get away with it? Would you disrespect yourself but continuing in a competition that has robbed you of your right to appeal an arbiters decision? If you would, you are part of the reason associations are able to get away with this sort of thing.

    Finally, I would like to say that I have no animosity towards individual members of the NSWCA Council, and I have tried very hard in all my statements to not make any personal remarks about anyone. All I have done is use the avenues available to me to try to get a fair appeal and a fair decision on this matter. I do hope that none of the Council members (or members of other teams) hold any sort of grudge against me or any of my teammates for pursuing this matter. I feel we are well within our rights to ask for this appeal, and I feel that we have done it in a polite and civilised manner. And although I am generally opposed to anyone withdrawing from a tournament, I feel that our withdrawal was justified, as the decision made was unfair and our right to a fair appeal was denied.

  13. #163
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    We are clearly getting nowhere here.
    If you wish to persue the matter further I suggest you take it up with the NSWCA Council.
    What good will that do? This episode is not exactly the highlight of your career as NSWCA Prez Bill. No personal disrespect to you but you've really stuffed up the whole thing.

    These guys are upset right up to their eyeballs. Now what are you going to do about it? Just friggin' give them a fair hearing already. It's that simple. Just make it happen. Your first and foremost job as codified in the NSWCA's own Constitution is to promote chess. You can't bloody do that unless you keep the peace. Instead, you'se mob are just pissing everybody off and only cos you reckon you can get away with it.

    We demand an independent appeals tribunal.

    AR

  14. #164
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonruski
    I feel we are well within our rights to ask for this appeal, and I feel that we have done it in a polite and civilised manner. And although I am generally opposed to anyone withdrawing from a tournament, I feel that our withdrawal was justified, as the decision made was unfair and our right to a fair appeal was denied.
    Indeed you are well within your rights. If Mr Gletsos here does not correct the matter and form an independent tribunal, I will personally hound the NSWCA, by means of course not subject to BillBot's legal threats, via my blog until they relent.

    What has happened here is a travesty of justice.

    You should maintain your position. Demand for an independent tribunal. As I say in my blog, this is akin to David Hicks appealing directly back to Donald Rumsfeld.

    Go for it!!

    AR

  15. #165
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    What good will that do? This episode is not exactly the highlight of your career as NSWCA Prez Bill. No personal disrespect to you but you've really stuffed up the whole thing.

    These guys are upset right up to their eyeballs. Now what are you going to do about it? Just friggin' give them a fair hearing already. It's that simple. Just make it happen. Your first and foremost job as codified in the NSWCA's own Constitution is to promote chess. You can't bloody do that unless you keep the peace. Instead, you'se mob are just pissing everybody off and only cos you reckon you can get away with it.

    We demand an independent appeals tribunal.

    AR
    If you wish to pursue the matter further I suggest you take it up with the NSWCA Council directly via the Secretary. After all I wouldnt want you to accuse me of not accurately representing your views.
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 21-07-2005 at 04:20 PM. Reason: spelling
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