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  1. #1
    CC Candidate Master Javier Gil's Avatar
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    Sydney grade matches joke

    Have you heard the one where the draw for the finals (3 rounds) in a teams competition is changed after the first one has already been played?
    Well, it's not a joke, that's what the NSWCA has done.

    The "new" pairings for the last 2 rounds are:

    Round 2
    St George vs Canterbury
    Asquith Leagues Club vs Sydney Chess Academy.

    Round 3
    Sydney Chess Academy vs St George
    Asquith Leagues Club vs Canterbury

    I play for Sydney Chess Academy and we were supposed to play Asquith in round 2. The rules clealy stablish the pairings and you can't change them at will simply because you think it makes the competition more interesting (it's not like if we're going to get national TV to broadcast the event). I too would like the draw to be more interesting when I'm playing in an individual competition and would love to be paired against anyone I wanted, but I have common sense.

    This unbelieveable measure breaks the rules of the competition, the pairings were clearly announced in advance and you can't change them.
    At present Sydney Chess Academy is serious contemplating the possibility of withdrawing the competition and taking every possible measure (acf, etc.) to correct this ... bad joke.

    I can't believe ANYONE WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND EXPECT TO GET AWAY WITH IT.
    The fact that someone would try to manipulate the competition in such a way is simply beyond my comprehension.
    The people that are behind this demonstrate the amount of respect that they have for this competition: NONE.
    You can't toy with the rules like that. Correct this immediately.
    Last edited by Javier Gil; 15-07-2005 at 02:33 PM.
    International Master and Professional Chess Coach.
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  2. #2
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Have you contacted the dop before you have post this here?
    GO THE DRAGONS!
    GO Western Sydney Wanderers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski's signature
    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

  3. #3
    CC Candidate Master Javier Gil's Avatar
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    er... excuse me, perhaps I'm missing something here and you actually meant: "has the dop contacted the teams involved before altering the rules of the competition?"
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  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Hola Javier! You did exactly the right thing by posting here.

    Gracias.

    AR

  5. #5
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Gil
    er... excuse me, perhaps I'm missing something here and you actually meant: "has the dop contacted the teams involved before altering the rules of the competition?"
    Erm no. I mean there is no point in saying this here because the dop or the person who does the draw does not read this bulletin board.
    GO THE DRAGONS!
    GO Western Sydney Wanderers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski's signature
    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    By the way Javier, is there any interesting gossip or controversy you can share with me? Please PM me and we will post in my new blog. We have no mods there. Just me.

    Btw, the offer of sangria is standing. We are now regulars at the Spanish Club every Friday evening. See you there some time soon, we hope.

    AR

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the chess nut
    Erm no. I mean there is no point in saying this here because the dop or the person who does the draw does not read this bulletin board.
    Err yes. Where have you been all this time?

    AR

  8. #8
    CC Candidate Master Javier Gil's Avatar
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    I'm posting it here because I think the people who read this forum have the right to know what's going on, regardless of whom my team has contacted or not.
    I thought that's what a forum was all about.
    Last edited by Javier Gil; 15-07-2005 at 12:19 PM.
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  9. #9
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Err yes. Where have you been all this time?

    AR
    Where have i been? I have nothing to do with doping the grade matches or setting the draw. If i was setting the draw i wouldn't have given fairfield U1400 team 3 away games in a row at Manly North Sydney and St. George.
    GO THE DRAGONS!
    GO Western Sydney Wanderers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski's signature
    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

  10. #10
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Gil
    I'm posting it here because I think the people who read this forum have the right to know what's going on, regardless of whom my team has contacted or not.
    I thought that's a forum was all about.
    This is a dispute is it not?

    Section 11 of grade match rules states:
    11. DISPUTES & APPEALS

    Report any disputes which captains cannot settle to the director of play (grade match arbiter) in writing within 10 days.
    Appeals against the director’s decision may then be made concerning:
    The Laws of Chess - to the appeals committee, via the NSWCA or the DOP.
    The Competition Rules - to the NSWCA.
    GO THE DRAGONS!
    GO Western Sydney Wanderers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski's signature
    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

  11. #11
    CC Candidate Master Javier Gil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the chess nut
    This is a dispute is it not?

    Section 11 of grade match rules states:
    11. DISPUTES & APPEALS

    Report any disputes which captains cannot settle to the director of play (grade match arbiter) in writing within 10 days.
    Appeals against the director’s decision may then be made concerning:
    The Laws of Chess - to the appeals committee, via the NSWCA or the DOP.
    The Competition Rules - to the NSWCA.
    In 10 days the games would have been played already. And I simply wouldn't call this a dispute, but a direct breaking of the rules.
    By the way, since you seem so well versed in the rules, which is the one that says that the DOP can change the pairings whenever he likes?
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  12. #12
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    The grade match booklet made it clear the arbiter would publish the draw for the final three rounds of the open grade. If the rounds 8-10 shown in the booklet were sufficient there would not have been any reason for the booklet to state that the arbiter would publish the draw for the final three rounds.

    The arbiters aim was to ensure that the teams in the finals played in the opposite manner to the way they played in the prelims. e.g. Asquith played at home against St. George in the prelims so that meant that St. George played at home against Asquith in the finals.

    The draw as shown ensures that all teams have played 5 home and 5 away matches and they evenues are the opposite to their preliminary matches. The only problem was it was discovered too late that the round 8 game Sydney Chess Academy V Canterbury should have been Canterbury V Sydney Chess Academy. Therefore the arbiter took the decision to have the match go ahead at Sydney Chess Academy but with it treated as a Canterbury home match as far as colours were concerned. There was no protest issued by Sydney Chess Academy regarding this and the match proceeded with Catnterbury being tretaed as the home side.

    Sydney Chess Academy have lodged an offical protest saying the rounds should remain as shown by the numbers in the grade match booklet and the council will make a decision.
    The Council will make a decision.
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 15-07-2005 at 12:33 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Hola Javier! You did exactly the right thing by posting here.

    Gracias.

    AR
    Should be an instruction on page 1 of Bill's training course for new Arbiters, right?

  14. #14
    CC Candidate Master Javier Gil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The grade match booklet made it clear the arbiter would publish the draw for the final three rounds of the open grade. If the rounds 8-10 shown in the booklet were sufficient there would not have been any reason for the booklet to state that the arbiter would publish the draw for the final three rounds.
    I believe the arbiter did publish the draw for the last 3 rounds, and obviously I don't have any objections to that. That's not what's being debated here, but the fact that those pairings were subsequently changed after the first round had already been played.

    The draw as shown ensures that all teams have played 5 home and 5 away matches and they evenues are the opposite to their preliminary matches. The only problem was it was discovered too late that the round 8 game Sydney Chess Academy V Canterbury should have been Canterbury V Sydney Chess Academy. Therefore the arbiter took the decision to have the match go ahead at Sydney Chess Academy but with it treated as a Canterbury home match as far as colours were concerned. There was no protest issued by Sydney Chess Academy regarding this and the match proceeded with Catnterbury being tretaed as the home side.
    Our team never requested that the draw be changed, he accepted it because he thought it was ok, although it did mean changing our preparation in the last minute. When accepting this change, our team captain was ASSURED that this would be the only change. It turns out that he was not told the truth.
    Last edited by Javier Gil; 15-07-2005 at 12:57 PM.
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  15. #15
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Gil
    I believe the arbiter did publish the rounds for the last 3 rounds, and obviously I don't have any objections to that. That's not what's being debated here, but the fact that those pairings were subsequently changed after the first round had already been published.
    I am informed by the person who updates the grade match web pages that the only published draw for rounds 9 and 10 showing the team names and dates on the grade match web pages are the ones you published above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Gil
    Our team never requested that the draw be changed, he accepted it because he thought it was ok, although it did mean changing our preparation in the last minute. When accepting this change, our team captain was ASSURED that this would be the only change. It turns out that he was not told the truth.
    This I cannot comment on as I have not spoken to the arbiter about it. However as far as I am aware at the time the decision was taken to change the colours for your match with canterbury the draw for the final rounds was as you published above.

    As this matter is now before the Council I have no intention of commenting further until a decision is reached.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

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