View Poll Results: All other things being equal (middlegame, no compensation) about when do you give up?

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  • Two pawns down

    5 6.41%
  • Piece down

    16 20.51%
  • Rook down

    15 19.23%
  • Queen down

    6 7.69%
  • Opponent has several pieces, you only have pawns

    5 6.41%
  • Only when mate is imminent

    18 23.08%
  • Always play on til mated

    13 16.67%
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  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster
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    I wouldn't resign a piece (or exchange) down in the middlegame. Some of my best attacking chess has come when down in material, and 'forced' to attack my opponent's king.

    On the other hand, I think dragging it out until checkmate is tedious if the win is obvious and the opponent is not a mug.

    I would probably resign if a clear rook down, and no compensation (and no opportunity for a sensational mating attack or perpetual).

  2. #32
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    I played a bad opening last night and unsoundly sacrificed a pawn ... which led to another, etc etc ... eventually I was a piece and some pawns down and trying to swindle a non-losing result ... but kept playing for a while "just in case". I'll post the game in another thread over the weekend and will put a pointer to it here. I believe it was worthwhile continuing, if only for the challenge of continuing to try to create winning chances in an obviously lost game given the "normal course of events". But I would never drag out a game unnecessarily just to be vindictive.
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

  3. #33
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I was momentarily surprised last night when my opponent (who was Black and to move) resigned here:

    FEN Viewer


    I did not immediately appreciate that at worst I had a forced win of his remaining pawn on the square where it stands after the white moves Rf7+, R3f4, h4, R7f5, Rg5, Rff5 and that therefore, with my king in a perfect anti-perpetual check fortress, the game really is as good as over.

  4. #34
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    One missing option is one pieces are developed more and better - all material being of equal value. This can even happen after 10 moves.

  5. #35
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    One missing option is one pieces are developed more and better - all material being of equal value. This can even happen after 10 moves.
    I would never resign because of that. Hardly any player would, because a huge lead in development isn't necessarily an easily won game. For instance the attack might fizzle out, or the attacker might play an unsound sacrifice.

    A couple of times I've been so badly positionally crushed that I've resigned when no material down because material loss was inevitable and my position would still be hopeless even after that.

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    White (Lucas) had just played 30.Qa4-d1! 1-0.

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    I had just played 35.h3-h4 to allow Black (M Hornung) to put me into zugzwang with 35...Ke8-f7 0-1.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 15-09-2006 at 12:28 PM.

  6. #36
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    KB
    I would never resign because of that. Hardly any player would, because a huge lead in development isn't necessarily an easily won game. For instance the attack might fizzle out, or the attacker might play an unsound sacrifice.

    A couple of times I've been so badly positionally crushed that I've resigned when no material down because material loss was inevitable and my position would still be hopeless even after that. end of quote

    A/C
    without looking at the boards aren't these two paras contradictory?

  7. #37
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    When being offered a phone loss by Kasparov

  8. #38
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    without looking at the boards aren't these two paras contradictory?
    No, because in both cases I resigned because the superiority in piece placement was such that it was going to cause a definite and obvious loss of material. In the opening just because one player has a strong centre and four pieces out and a safely castled king while the other is messing around does not mean that the better-developed player will always easily win - unless they are very very good.

  9. #39
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    I agree with Kevin. I would never even consider resigning on move 10 (unless there was a material loss or what I believed to be unavoidable material loss) no matter how bad the "positional" disadvantage. Positional (dis)advantages are transitory and with good play by the defender and/or sloppy play by the attacker they can be wiggled out of if you are up to the pressure.

    In fact one tactic is to deliberately play into stodgy but defendible positions and certain opponents will feel obliged to sacrifice a pawn or two to generate an attack against your "uncoordinated" forces. After the attack is repelled you can enjoy an easy endgame. Of course this plan does not suit everyone's temperament, nor will all opponents be suckered into the unsound sacrifice but I can attest to its success on more than one occasion.

    ...

    However, I did have an opponent of mine this year resign on me at around move 10 in a materially equal position. I was flabbergasted and tried to talk him out of resigning but his heart wasn't in it. Quite a bizarre situation. If I think of it, I'll post the game tonight.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  10. #40
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Well there you are, you have a perpentrator like myself thinking they should resign, and some victims thinking likewise - so it should have been an option.

    Whenever you require help with polls....

  11. #41
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    Well there you are, you have a perpentrator like myself thinking they should resign, and some victims thinking likewise - so it should have been an option.
    Resigning is always an option but you don;t win too many games with it.

    This guy was not a rank-beginner but was inexperienced in tournament play. I think he talked himself into a negative mindset and so lost the battle without me having to really lift a finger.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  12. #42
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    This guy was not a rank-beginner but was inexperienced in tournament play.
    I played a 'newbie' last night. Apart from the fact that he was quite strong, it was quite funny because he'd never played under 'touch/move' conditions. So the first time he grabbed a piece, hesitated, then moved another, I allowed him to make the move then gently explained the way things should be done.

    Several moves later he picked up a piece, put it down ... then exclaimed loudly "Oh, S**T, I have to move it now don't I?". This happened 2 or 3 more times, until I finally quietly suggested to him to sit on his hands until he's ready to move!
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

  13. #43
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty
    I played a 'newbie' last night. Apart from the fact that he was quite strong, it was quite funny because he'd never played under 'touch/move' conditions. So the first time he grabbed a piece, hesitated, then moved another, I allowed him to make the move then gently explained the way things should be done.

    Several moves later he picked up a piece, put it down ... then exclaimed loudly "Oh, S**T, I have to move it now don't I?". This happened 2 or 3 more times, until I finally quietly suggested to him to sit on his hands until he's ready to move!
    I have heard that God did exactly the same with a few of his disasters.

  14. #44
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    This guy was not a rank-beginner but was inexperienced in tournament play. I think he talked himself into a negative mindset and so lost the battle without me having to really lift a finger.
    I think this is fairly common. I sometimes have great trouble convincing weaker opponents in the post-mortem that they were actually in the game.

  15. #45
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    However, I did have an opponent of mine this year resign on me at around move 10 in a materially equal position. I was flabbergasted and tried to talk him out of resigning but his heart wasn't in it. Quite a bizarre situation. If I think of it, I'll post the game tonight.
    [Date "2005.03.08"]
    [White "Cox, Barry"]
    [Black "Opponent"]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [ECO "A17"]

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    2005 has not been a successful year for my chess in general but this was one of my easier points. It would be interesting to see how many black's have resigned immediately after the move e4 by white.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

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