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  1. #46
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    My guess is that makes it a privateer...and that is supported by the thread initiator's involvement.
    That bloody thread starter has since disappeared. That's the problem with these normally noisy bastards. As soon as the questions get tougher, they just duck and weave and bloody disappear. Gutless pricks!

    The entire Australian nation is being humiliated by these people. Crucify them.

    AR

  2. #47
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    hmmmm

  3. #48
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    Vitorian Junior masters 2005,rounds 4-5

    Here are today results
    Round four
    Dusan Stojic-Artem Nikolaevsky1-0
    Svetozar Stojic-Nick Dour1-0
    Derek Yu -James Morris 0-1
    JessiJager-Alistair Dyer 1-0
    Gino Thornton-Eugene Schon 1-0

    Round five
    James Morris-Dusan Stojic 0-1
    Alistair Dyer-Svetozar Stojic 0-1
    Nic Dour-Derek Yu 0,5-0,5
    Eugene Schon-Jessi Jager 0-1
    Artem Nikolaevsky-GinoThornton 0-1

    Also one game was played from the last round :Eugene Schon-Nick Dour 0,5-0,5.Eugene is leaving for Adelaide University tournament on Friday and cannot play July 8th.
    With four rounds to go the leaders are:Jessi Jager and Gino Thornton on 4,5 points each,Svetozar Stojic on 4 points and his brother Dusan on 3,5.
    Tomorrow rounds will start @9-30am,12-30pm and 3-30pm.
    The games to watch In round 6 usan Stojic -Gino Thornton,
    In round 7:Gino Thornton-Jessi Jager
    Svetozar Stojic have got an easier run home (Eugene,Artem,Derek)

  4. #49
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    What an expensive holiday...

    Praise be to Cordless in his infinite wisdom, who has imported people from far and wide for a tournament. Shame on him for not making the true terms and conditions apparent. If we are going to build up any sort of a standing in the world chess community, alienating our closest neighbours, (NZ) hardly seems wise?

    I offer my sympathies to the participants and sincerely hope that they at least enjoy playing with some people of their own age in a closed tournament, something they would probably seldom have a chance of doing.

    I will also be very interested to hear what the prize fund is; I shall also find out what the rent is tomorrow and post it here.

    Take care, God Bless, and good luck in the rest of the competition to all of the competitors, ( but some more than others )

    Macavity VP

  5. #50
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macavity
    I will also be very interested to hear what the prize fund is; I shall also find out what the rent is tomorrow and post it here.
    Good onya mate. I knew there were sane Mexicans. Let's get answers from these people cos they ain't paying attention.

    Have a good day and God bless you too.

    AR

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    That bloody thread starter has since disappeared. That's the problem with these normally noisy bastards. As soon as the questions get tougher, they just duck and weave and bloody disappear. Gutless pricks!

    The entire Australian nation is being humiliated by these people. Crucify them.

    AR
    AR

    Perhaps you have spent too much time bumping around multiple threads,
    and have become disoriented, Mr Sydney Eccentric.

    Just for you...., point and click.

    Or if that fails...the first post in this very thread mate.

    regards
    starter

  7. #52
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    Hi,

    As organiser of the tournament I am now being made aware that the event is not able to be FIDE rated. I was under the misconception that the minimum rate of play for a FIDE rated event was 60minutes. This is correct, but only for events where players are Under 1600. I am now aware of this.

    All the players in the event have been well aware of the conditions of the tournament for many months. Including time control, entry fees, prizes and the rest. All players willingly entered under these conditions and paid their fees - presumably they felt it was a worthwhile event, otherwise they would not have entered.

    All players, arbiters, shop assitants, organisers etc have some small part to blame in the mistake that was made. Anyone could have brought the error in the time controls to my (or others) attention anytime since the entry forms were first distribued (months ago). I will admit that it was PRIMARILY my responsibility to check these details and there I erred by not checking. But of course Gino is aware of that - which is why he doesn't want to tell his mum, why didn't he check? I would have obviously altered the time control - but he didn't. Neither did anyone else. Even a mention to the arbiter at the start of round 1 would have probably been sufficient to alter the time controls....

    I am sure nobody believes that this was a deliberate attempt to sabotage the event, and all other aspects of the event were advertised and accepted by players choosing to enter the event.

    I will consider all possibilities with regards to reparations for the mistake, and I am confident that I can satisfy players with an appropriate outcome. I will be doing so individually with each participant.

    I appreciate your logic with regard to entry fees, but surely nobody can be so stupid to say: $1250 income, salary doesn't count as expense, books already in your shop doesn't count as expense, you shouldn't be paying so much rent to the MCC, forget about advertising, possible contributions to Aus Masters event plus add in the income of 8 x $125 from Reserves event (of course forgetting any expenses there). And even if you (collectively) were so stupid to believe that i've just pocketed $1000....why is that wrong? This is a philosophical point - why is it wrong to make a proift from a chess event?

    If the entry fee was too high, players wouldn't have come to play!

    Starter- this is a CV approved event being run in conjuction (or as a subsidiary event to...) with the Vic Masters. CV will be submitting these events for rating (ACF and FIDE). I have been running Vic Junior Masters events since 1995 (or perhaps 94) - where Michael Kagan Jrn was first and I finished second, I think Joseph Chow was 3rd.... I don't have a list of all the winners, but could probably create one if i could be bothered...which i can't.

  8. #53
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    Hi Everybody. I am a New Zealand player who is a regular visitor to Australian tournaments such as the Vic Masters and Australian Masters. Most of these featured the guru (David) in some sort of capacity. All of those tournaments were run ok and were enjoyable.

    I have lurked on this bulletin board for awhile and feel that it is worth pointing out that without people willing to organise events, the Oz / NZ scene would be poorer for it. Most of us (me included) are way too disorganised to organise a tourney so I hate to think people who do will get put off.

    I know Gino well, so feel like I can say stop moaning Gino and enjoy the tournament. In fact win the tournament! I'll even buy you a drink at the next tourney if you do.

    While on the topic of tournament organisers, Paul Spiller and co who ran the Zonal did a positively mindblowingly good job. All the Aussies I talked to were very impressed. The Queenstown Tourney next year should be even better so I encourage all you Aussies to get your butts down there.

  9. #54
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    Whose fault is it????

    Quote Originally Posted by ChessGuru
    Hi,

    As organiser of the tournament I am now being made aware that the event is not able to be FIDE rated. I was under the misconception that the minimum rate of play for a FIDE rated event was 60minutes. This is correct, but only for events where players are Under 1600. I am now aware of this.

    All the players in the event have been well aware of the conditions of the tournament for many months. Including time control, entry fees, prizes and the rest. All players willingly entered under these conditions and paid their fees - presumably they felt it was a worthwhile event, otherwise they would not have entered.

    All players, arbiters, shop assitants, organisers etc have some small part to blame in the mistake that was made. Anyone could have brought the error in the time controls to my (or others) attention anytime since the entry forms were first distribued (months ago). I will admit that it was PRIMARILY my responsibility to check these details and there I erred by not checking. But of course Gino is aware of that - which is why he doesn't want to tell his mum, why didn't he check? I would have obviously altered the time control - but he didn't. Neither did anyone else. Even a mention to the arbiter at the start of round 1 would have probably been sufficient to alter the time controls....

    I am sure nobody believes that this was a deliberate attempt to sabotage the event, and all other aspects of the event were advertised and accepted by players choosing to enter the event.

    I will consider all possibilities with regards to reparations for the mistake, and I am confident that I can satisfy players with an appropriate outcome. I will be doing so individually with each participant.

    I appreciate your logic with regard to entry fees, but surely nobody can be so stupid to say: $1250 income, salary doesn't count as expense, books already in your shop doesn't count as expense, you shouldn't be paying so much rent to the MCC, forget about advertising, possible contributions to Aus Masters event plus add in the income of 8 x $125 from Reserves event (of course forgetting any expenses there). And even if you (collectively) were so stupid to believe that i've just pocketed $1000....why is that wrong? This is a philosophical point - why is it wrong to make a proift from a chess event?

    If the entry fee was too high, players wouldn't have come to play!

    Starter- this is a CV approved event being run in conjuction (or as a subsidiary event to...) with the Vic Masters. CV will be submitting these events for rating (ACF and FIDE). I have been running Vic Junior Masters events since 1995 (or perhaps 94) - where Michael Kagan Jrn was first and I finished second, I think Joseph Chow was 3rd.... I don't have a list of all the winners, but could probably create one if i could be bothered...which i can't.
    Dear all,

    I was present on the first day of this event at the MCC and raised the matter of the time controls with Leonid Sandler, who assured me that the event was rateable. I expressed my surprise about this matter and he told me that there had been many changes in the revised FIDE rules as applied from the 1st of July.

    So if in truth, this matter was said to be rectifiable by the matter being brought to the organizers or their delegates ( in this case the tournament arbiter) 's notice, then why were they not changed at that point?

    The first round had not concluded when this discussion took place, and that is the specified reference point referred to above, and as such, protestations that the time control could be changed at that point are shown to be nonsensical as they were brought to attention, and they were not changed??

    And as an organizer of numerous events, I am much more at ease admitting that I have made a mistake when I have in fact done so, than instead turning around to those who have entered my event and saying that they should in effect check that I have not provided false or misleading information about my event before entering...Why would I issue a document with the idea of turning the competitors into both amateur editors and/or investigators. The obligations of the organizer are to verify the information being presented. Please own this responsibility, CG, and do not try and pass it off on your clients!

    As far as the tournament schedule goes, the tournament was initially to have been a 7 round, 8 player event, but late entries led to this being 9 rounds and 10 players. As such the schedule was altered to accomodate the additional rounds, which again begs the question about the above reference to knowing of the terms and conditions "Months in advance.."??
    I am not rock solid on this, but I believe it is even less than one month since the full field was finalised with the final number of 10 players...again lots of questions there potentially?

    I also find it perplexing that in your closing paragraph that leaving aside submission for ACF rating, you still refer to FIDE rating for these event(s?)

    Given that you have accepted the unsuitability of the Junior Masters to be FIDE rated, why mention that you will submit them? It makes no sense to submit a tournament that is unrateable, and God forbid that legerdemain would be employed to provide a report which stipulated an incorrect time control, which as I understand it is theoretically possible, but nonetheless a falsification. Why do you persist in suggesting this? In particular in the context of assigning that "Starter- this is a CV approved event being run in conjuction (or as a subsidiary event to...) with the Vic Masters. CV will be submitting these events for rating (ACF and FIDE) "that it is CV's decision to nonetheless submit these events for FIDE rating? I would bve very surprised to hear that Gary Wastell would approve of the submission of an event that had erroneous data in it's report; neither would Gary Bekker.

    Finally, that the players understood the terms and conditions of the event as listed, surely the tournament being a FIDE rated event was a large consideration for many of them, who may have not played at all but for this.

    As such, your suggestion that they misinformed (tricked) themselves does you no credit, nor helps in the long run in bringing this matter to a conclusion that the parties involved, ( participants, their families ) will find satisfactory.

    Finally( I know i said it twice...i'm sorry for misinforming you ) the rent has now been confirmed as $400 for the Australian Masters, proper, and a further $150 for the Victorian Junior Masters once that event was assigned to this venue, with a total rental therefore of $550 for the entire course of these events. This decision was arrived at by the MCC committee, and is acceptable to them; we do not feel that this is an inappropriate sum and are pleased with the conduct of the players in both events,

    all the best, God Bless, Macavity VP

    PS I hope that all the players at least played some interesting chess, and good luck on the last rounds.

    PPS Who is the sleeping arbiter?

    PPPS Why is it that Gino should be made to feel incompetent in that he feels that he must deceive his mother? Because of your stuffup, David! For goodness sake, how dare you suggest that he is culpable in this? Grow up! another spoonful perhaps? M
    Last edited by Bereaved; 07-07-2005 at 05:30 PM.

  10. #55
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Very well delivered mac. This so called Guru only make himself look like a stupid idiot. Not to mention an inhospitable, heartless bastard.

    AR

  11. #56
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    Dear Gino,


    Thanks for your email….



    The time control for this event has been advertised for MONTHS!



    I too am pissed off that only on day 2 of the tournament (and in your case at the END of the day) anyone has told me that the event will not qualify for FIDE rating.


    I had been told the minimum time control for FIDE ratings was 60min, which is true, but not for events with players over 1600….so I was labouring under a misconception.



    I agree that this is a load of shit – everyone had some responsibility (however small) to check the details for the tournament. Even to ask a question during the FIRST round when it could have been altered and the tournament fixed. Everyone was well aware of the advertised conditions for the tournament – to make complaints ½ way through the event is a bit lame…



    One thing I certainly view as valid complaints are about the running of the event.



    Please let me know about the coaching situation – I am not there, but Leonid Sandler is being paid over $1000 to provide coaching during this event, I’d like to know if that is not happening. Or what indeed is happening with coaching if there is some but not much… The situation should be that every game you play is analysed by Leonid Sandler and when there is time (prior to 5pm) that he provide some lectures about games from the Aussie Masters.



    I am sure if you ask Chris Depasquale he will provide you with a copy of ALL the Aussie Masters bulletins. I apologise if this has not been done already.



    The prizes for each tournament were advertised as value of $150. This will amount to trophies (about $75) plus books (about $100).



    If the trophy has a chip in it, don’t worry – we will have it replaced before Friday.



    I am sorry you feel ripped off – but you were very happy prior to the event (with only 7 rounds). The 2 differences are

    a) 2 extra games FREE

    b) not FIDE rated



    I can admit that the non-FIDE rated nature would be a bit of a disappointment, but win the tournament and qualify to the Vic Masters IM event next year and all will be well. I will investigate what we can do to rectify the situation with regards the FIDE rating of the event. But again, everyone has known for MONTHS about the tournament conditions and to make a complaint NOW when you’ve entered under those conditions is really a bit poor….



    Don’t worry about the Tassie kid, he is very happy to be there – and I will be seeing him back here in Tasmania on Sunday and talk to him about his experiences.



    I’d be happy to hear more about this event and solve the problems you are encountering… but please do so in a constructive way and not a destructive way. Alienating yourself by abusing people and kicking up a public fuss before speaking directly to the organiser really doesn’t look good and certainly doesn’t win you any brownie points. I had expected more of you.


    Thanks
    David

  12. #57
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    You're a genius Gino. That's it. Play dirty. But I would've waited a little longer before playing my trump card. No matter. You have our sympathies.

    He's quite amateurish this Guru, ain't he? Look how he does a bit of a shifty mind-job on you.

    AR

  13. #58
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    What time was that?

    David, please clarify:
    a: who told you it was required to be only 60 minutes?
    b: how is before the end of round 1 = end of the second day (cf below), for questions regarding the time control and it's ramifications,

    Questions,Questions, too many questions??...Now where is my pied pipe??

    all the best, God Bless, Macavity

    PS Was it that your arbiter/coach did not let you know of questions? also how can he prepare each of the players when they will be playing each other; someone must end up being disappointed one would think??


    David Cordover wrote: " I agree that this is a load of shit – everyone had some responsibility (however small) to check the details for the tournament. Even to ask a question during the FIRST round when it could have been altered and the tournament fixed. Everyone was well aware of the advertised conditions for the tournament – to make complaints ½ way through the event is a bit lame…"

  14. #59
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Professionalism is not about being paid - it's about conducting yourself in a professional way.

    If you stuff up - by telling people something is FIDE rated when it cannot be - then the last action of a professional person should be to turn the blame onto the "customer."

    With a good, professional reputation, I can't understand why you could think people should have questioned the FIDE status of the event? As they expect professionalism and high standards from you, I imagine they believed you were advertising an event that met the rules.

    I would have made that assumption. Not all of us are fully familiar with the FIDE rules ourselves. You are talking about Juniors, even if they are very good ones. And the parents are likely to be 99% in the dark so no help there. They rely on the information from the organising committee.

    Is it an offence for which hung/drawn/quartered is appropriate? No. But I would find a less "qualified" apology to participants more appropriate than some attempt to make them shoulder all or part of the responsibility.

  15. #60
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    lol

    Man i drew 2 games today.

    I killed dusan. then Gm draw with Jager. so we sill tied on 1st. Then i drew last game lol shocking. So im on 6.5/8. Stjoic,jager 7/8. But they got to play each other tomorrow. But we aint playing for anything anyway. So who gives a rats booty.. lol na i still wouldnt minded of winning.

    And for the record. I asked leonard on in the car on day 1 when we were going to the even.t I was like what is up with this time control..seems pretty wacked. he said its the minium it can be. Also the night before i asked chirs depaqule he quotes. 60/0 is rapid/ 60/10 can be fide rated.

    Why did the reseerve have to pay 125$ too?...when there tournament wasnt fide rated? why not just $125- minus the fide levy?. Hmmmm? whats up doc?

    When a empire falls they blame the emperor. hey i just made that up. Good work to me. But

    Seriousnesss..

    (Italic pretend there is a slant). When a empire falls they blame the emperor. Gino 2005 ad.



    OWNED!

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