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  1. #46
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    round 10 and 11 pgn's from the open attached. Unfortunately I only have the dgt board pgn's for round 11.

  2. #47
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skip to my lou
    And roughly how many people ordered CDs?
    I understand multiple A4 pages of orders were taken.

    Let's say 20 people per page @ $12

    1x page = 20 people and $240 collected

    2x pages = 40 people and $480 collected

    5x pages = 100 people and $1200 ...

    I'd hazard a guess that, even if CDs were supplied, there was a reasonable profit to be made on this exercise - a much better profit if they are not supplied. This money was collected completely separate to the funding of Mt Buller itself.

    I'll agree that the urgency has gone out of the Buller-tin balloon but it shouldn't be trivialised as a small amount of money - at least until we know how many were actually ordered. Could the list of orders have been misplaced? Perhaps with the ACT digital clock that was never returned Perhaps with the $4000 junior development fund which both Jenni & I have pointed out was never contingent upon the profitability of Mt Buller or otherwise? Perhaps with the audited accounts of Mt Buller Inc which would show any profit/loss from the event and any portion of the profit due to be paid to the ACF?

    Hopefully there is some action behind-the-scenes happening to resolve all of this. I thought the information vacuum around Mt Buller in the lead up was their biggest problem and it seems to have just continued after the event. In both cases, sensible and open communication could have made a world of difference. Instead, in both cases, non-communication just leads to speculation and the outcomes aren't flattering to the parties concerned or to the Australian chess scene.

  3. #48
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    Attention to detail

    In addition, but as quite a wide digression, one would have thought that prior to the day when Round 11 was played, given Elena's great chance of an outright first, that the organiser would have thought to have a nice bouquet to present her with at the ceremony, perhaps presented by Shannon Oliver or Sally Yu, two of the promising Women australian's in the tournament. As it is, the idea seemed to be for Elena to place the Trophy on her head for the photographs?! What great forethought!

    On a nicer note, while the preparations for the prize giving were going on, I saw Shannon Oliver walk over to congratulate Elena, telling her how nice it was to see a woman win the tournament for a change. Elena's smile was very warm, and to me it was a really ( if not the most) beautiful moment of the tournament. Definitely deserving of Kodak and kleenex's attention.

    I don't know if that was captured on film, but if so, that at least would be the one image Austalian chess can not do without,

    Pull your finger out George, we have waited long enough,

    Macavity VP

  4. #49
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    if the amount owing is totaling $5000 or more
    maybe one of the creditors should compile a list of all creditors
    and engage a debt collection agency (eg. baycorp)?!

  5. #50
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Where I come from, when someone doesn't deliver like this, there are various methods to use. The ACF should consider this kind of policy.

    AR

  6. #51
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    i just spent a few minutes trying to find the right thread, but couldnt. Anyways, how different does mt buller look now compared to when we were there in summer

    http://ski.mtbuller.com.au/snowcams/bourke.html

    STML, can you add html files to the ones that can be uploaded please?

  7. #52
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    It is fortuitous that this debate should break out today as I was (and am) intending this weekend to try to sort out a means whereby the CDs could be produced and sent to those who paid for them. Although the provision of the CDs was not part of the original Mt Buller bid, I and at least some other of the ACF Councillors believe that the ACF should try to resolve the matter. We did have George's promises to produce the CDs within a couple of weeks of the last ACF Council meeting on 11 April and to produce a financial report by 31 May. Neither of those events occurred. A little while ago I e-mailed ACF Councillors with some options for action on both aspects and have had discussions with some Councillors.

    Although it may seem attractive to some to take some kind of legal action, my view is that this would only be costly and counter-productive. Likewise, I believe that at present posting appeals or the like to George on the BB is no use as he has told me he doesn't read it any more.

    One option that I am to pursue is for the ACF Council to obtain the material that was to go on the CD, which I hope is otherwise available, and to produce copies for those who paid for them. I do believe, however, that the only list of those who paid is the A4 pad on which people (including me) wrote their names and addresses when they paid George. Whether that list can be obtained, or still exists is yet to be ascertained. But even if it does not, there are ways around the problem, I think.

    On another point, some while ago there in a posting by Freddy, he said that he thought George is an ACF VP because he was previously ACF President. That is not my understanding - George was elected at the National Conference unopposed so there was no reason given why he or Kerry Stead - the other VP stood. Under the ACF Constitution, George would have been a non-voting memeber of the Council as Immediate Past President for the following 12 months. I believe he stood as VP because of his then intention to run a Mt Buller 2007 but I am not sure of his intentions in that regard now.

    If I am not successful in resolving the CDs question, which I regard as the more important of the two matters because of its nature, I mention that the next ACF Council meeting is fixed for 18 July and the matter will be further considered then.

    The matter of the $4000 Junior development fund needs also to be resolved. The minutes of the relevant ACF Council meeting do not mention that figure but it is in the notes I made of the meeting as ACTCA delegate and, in any event, George put a posting on the BB next day confirming the arrangement which arose from his having reduced the junior prizes. What I am not clear about is whether the $4000 was to come form George or from the Mt Buller management. This matter was raised at the meeting at which the bid from George was accepted so at that stage he did not have the money from MtBuller for the event.

    DJ

    PS Incidentally there seem to be two threads on this matter - this one and the MtBuller Bulletins thread in the Tournament news etc section. Perhaps the threads should be combined.
    Last edited by Denis_Jessop; 18-06-2005 at 09:09 PM.
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  8. #53
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Don't worry, that is not nearly as bad as nodding off at a meeting or attending a meeting of the NSWCA council.
    Last edited by antichrist; 18-06-2005 at 11:33 PM.

  9. #54
    chmod -x /bin/chmod
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    STML, can you add html files to the ones that can be uploaded please?
    Err, why?

  10. #55
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    Denis, what is the mechanism for removing ACF Office Bearers? Can it simply be done at a council meeting with a simple motion of no-confidence, or are there more complicated steps required (email vote from the states etc)?
    Removing George from his ACF positions is something that the ACF needs to seriously consider, as a way of demonstrating the ACF's attitude towards incompetence, if not deliberate misrepresentation, by an ACF office bearer.

  11. #56
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apt
    Err, why?
    i just wanted to upload the pic from the snow at mt buller. I dont know how else to do it from a webpage. I see others doing it, but i am not sure how to do it any other way?

  12. #57
    chmod -x /bin/chmod
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    Save the image to your computer and then attach it to your post.

  13. #58
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    No Closure on Mt Buller (yet)!

    Quote Originally Posted by macavity
    In addition, but as quite a wide digression, one would have thought that prior to the day when Round 11 was played, given Elena's great chance of an outright first, that the organiser would have thought to have a nice bouquet to present her with at the ceremony, perhaps presented by Shannon Oliver or Sally Yu, two of the promising Women australian's in the tournament. As it is, the idea seemed to be for Elena to place the Trophy on her head for the photographs?! What great forethought!

    On a nicer note, while the preparations for the prize giving were going on, I saw Shannon Oliver walk over to congratulate Elena, telling her how nice it was to see a woman win the tournament for a change. Elena's smile was very warm, and to me it was a really ( if not the most) beautiful moment of the tournament. Definitely deserving of Kodak and kleenex's attention.

    I don't know if that was captured on film, but if so, that at least would be the one image Austalian chess can not do without,

    Pull your finger out George, we have waited long enough,

    Macavity VP
    I took a couple of photos of Elena and others whilst waiting for the Closing Ceremony at Mt Buller. I then positioned myself infront of where I was told the Ceremony would take place and waited. After half an hour delay, the ceremony started in front of the kitchen (wonderful backdrop) so I moved to get better photos. Then the presenters moved again and I got fed up. I had already waited over half an hour so went for dinner and boycotted the Closing Ceremony!

    PS I wanted the CD for my Australian Chess magazine report on Mt Buller. But it's a bit late now for that!

  14. #59
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaun
    Denis, what is the mechanism for removing ACF Office Bearers? Can it simply be done at a council meeting with a simple motion of no-confidence, or are there more complicated steps required (email vote from the states etc)?
    Removing George from his ACF positions is something that the ACF needs to seriously consider, as a way of demonstrating the ACF's attitude towards incompetence, if not deliberate misrepresentation, by an ACF office bearer.
    Hi Shaun

    Removal of an Executive member or an office-bearer requires a special motion to be put to the Council - see cl.6 of the ACF Constitution. Voting on that motion must be in writing (which now includes e-mail) and the number of votes that may be cast by State Associations is the same as the total votes of their representatives at a National Conference ie NSW 7, Vic 5, Qld 4, SA and WA 2, Tas and ACT 1. It seems to me that the Executive members don't have a vote on a special motion as cl.5c of the Constitution says that the Council functions as "the recorder of the wishes of State Associations in special motions as defined in Clause 6a".

    Also the Council would need to observe the rules of procedural fairness by giving the person concerned notice of what was alleged against them and an opportunity to present their case in reply before the motion was put. Were it not to do so the decision could be challenged in Court.

    Removing George from office is an option that the Council will consider.

    Denis
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  15. #60
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    Hello Dennis. I wasn't sure so thank you for the clarification. You did not though answer my question as to whether he is active in anyway in his role as an ACF vice-president. Has he done anything for the ACF since he ceased being ACF President, not including anything to do with Mt Buller? Does he even still wish to be an ACF vice-president if his goal of being on the ACF council was to run a 2007 MT Buller? He might be happy to just resign if asked.
    Scott

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