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  1. #46
    . eclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa
    ok thanks
    Just another question...why the discrepency in prize money for the girls under 14 and 16 and the Australian junior under 14 and 16?
    If we are trying to encourage girls to play and enter, surely this won't help?
    it's ok mischa, i'm sure kaitlin for one will have the nous to secure lucrative appearance money on the basis of her chesschat celebrity status!







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  2. #47
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa
    ok thanks
    Just another question...why the discrepency in prize money for the girls under 14 and 16 and the Australian junior under 14 and 16?
    If we are trying to encourage girls to play and enter, surely this won't help?
    It seems it has again fallen to me to point out the obvious.

    1. #entrants of boys = x
    2. #entrants of girls = ~(1/5)x
    __________
    3. Therefore, prizemoney, to be fairly distributed, should favour those who ENTERED (boys).

    Girls always seem to cry foul of things, dismissing 'rationality' as something irrelevant. I think the prizes are more than fair.
    Last edited by Alan Shore; 14-08-2005 at 12:17 AM.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
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  3. #48
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    2. #entrants of girls = ~1/5x
    I think you mean "x/5"
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  4. #49
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    And this encourages girls?

  5. #50
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa
    And this encourages girls?
    The other point is you are the parent of a boy entrant (or possible entrant). So Belthasar's statement about it being the girls who always cry foul is patently absurd. It is to your financial advantage NOT to rock the prize structure.

    The point is how do we encourage more girl participation in chess. One way would be to offer equal prize money. The "if we build it they will come" approach. The other option would be to adopt a user pays attitude and sit around next year wondering how we can encourage greater female participation in chess.

    I await to see the web coverage of the open events as compared to the girls events this year.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  6. #51
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    why dont you make your take care line your signature Macavity

    I havent actually provided any answers as to official policy, so i am not a spokesperson

    What is it about august that brings out all the criticisms for australian tournaments
    Hi GG,
    on the first point, there may come a stage where I don't want to ( gasp!!!) sign a message in this manner with my feeling on a topic

    On the second, in the absence of being a spokesman, perhaps you should feel free to express your opinion on this matter, rather than repeatedly echoing ( parroting? ) that you are not the spokesman, and that the organisers will not respond? Do you have an opinion on these matters??

    Thirdly, I will produce the relevant quote
    " Dear Mr President.
    There are too many states these days,
    please eliminate three,
    signed Abraham Simpson

    PS I am not a crackpot."

    I don't believe that there is a stipulated season for responding to or suggesting an opinion about a topic; irrespective of the 'there is a season to all things' I think it would be a very busy time for all parties in the world, even if only the world of chess if they had to await August to raise all their concerns??

    I think that when sees something that troubles them, one suggests that to be the case as otherwise no-one is likely to guess. Even as it is, we see these words and only get a brief glimpse of what the other person feels about a matter, but still better communication than silence and stagnation

    take care and God Bless, Macavity

  7. #52
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Edited just for you Baz.

    Mischa, I don't think prizemoney is going to encourage girls, I think exposure to chess is. I've taught at all-girls primary and high schools and their motivations generally come from a) competitiveness and b) love of the game, as opposed to monetary incentives. These non-pecuniary benefits are more important for coaches - to promote the two factors I listed, first and foremost.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  8. #53
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    Mischa, I don't think prizemoney is going to encourage girls, I think exposure to chess is. I've taught at all-girls primary and high schools and their motivations generally come from a) competitiveness and b) love of the game, as opposed to monetary incentives. These non-pecuniary benefits are more important for coaches - to promote the two factors I listed, first and foremost.
    That all very well until you start having to pay for accomodation, transport and $75 entry fee to play interstate. So if the parents are loaded and money no object then "love of the game" becomes a luxury you can afford.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    The organising committee will not be engaging in trial by chesschat bulletin board,
    therefore you will have to email Graeme directly at ggardiner@gardinerchess.com
    Hate to say it Garvin, but if they won't post here, then there's a very high chance the only person left to represent them will be.. erm...

  10. #55
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    That all very well until you start having to pay for accomodation, transport and $75 entry fee to play interstate. So if the parents are loaded and money no object then "love of the game" becomes a luxury you can afford.
    Look, it's the Australian Juniors. I couldn't afford to play in any of them. If you're not good enough, then too bad - start out playing some junior/school comps until you reach such an elite level that you can convince your parents it's worth the money. That's no reason to increase the prizes in the girls' division.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  11. #56
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    Look, it's the Australian Juniors. I couldn't afford to play in any of them. If you're not good enough, then too bad - start out playing some junior/school comps until you reach such an elite level that you can convince your parents it's worth the money. That's no reason to increase the prizes in the girls' division.
    Just missed the point dude. If the parents don't have the money then doesn;t matter how well you play.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  12. #57
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Just missed the point dude. It's the parents who do or don't have the money. If the parents don't then the kids don't.
    So we agree then, that extra prizes for girls' events is useless as participation comes down to parental finances and motivation from the sources I named. Brilliant!
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  13. #58
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar
    So we agree then, that extra prizes for girls' events is useless as participation comes down to parental finances and motivation from the sources I named. Brilliant!
    No missed the point again. Perhaps you need more sleep.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  14. #59
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    No missed the point again. Perhaps you need more sleep.
    Perhaps you're not being clear enough.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by macavity
    ...
    probably just an oversight by those overseeing, ( a bit like running two events concurrently to the detriment of both??)
    I personally don't think it is a great format, especially for juniors who might want to play both events.

    I suspect there are economical issues involved, the organisers save a lot of money by having the venue tied up for half as many days, etc. This sort of arrangement has been done before, the last time it happened I seem to remember was in Sydney, 1995/6 sort of thing I think. Someone correct me if there is a more recent precedent.

    One last thing, I would not wish 8am starts on anyone playing in a chess tournament, let alone kids and their parents!

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