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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster
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    GM norm events in Oz?

    Now that it seems GM Schmalz will be living in Australia for a couple of years, I wonder whether anyone has looked into the possibility of running a GM norm event?

    It ought to be possible to put together a 10 player field of 2440 average or thereabouts, with GM norms for 6.5/9 and IM norms for 5/9. Money as always is the limiting factor, as the GMs would need to be paid.

    Anyone know when the last GM norm event was held in Australia (has there ever been one)? (and I don't mean the monster swisses where norm fields are only ever a theoretical possibility)

    I guess it is also debatable whether it is worth running a GM norm event when nobody is near the 2500 rating level.

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Well whatever you do don't let GM Schmalz de-register his overseas associations as previously stated we need them from 3 different federations.

    Then import a few more over with a GM title and away we go.

  3. #3
    CC FIDE Master
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    Last GM Event

    The last GM norm event to be run in Australia was the Saintly Cup (which I think was in 2001) though that maybe off. It was run in Sydney by IA Jason Lyons. It was a great event, but the amount needed to run the event was massive, so sadly they are few and far between...
    Lee Forace

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    Well whatever you do don't let GM Schmalz de-register his overseas associations as previously stated we need them from 3 different federations.

    Then import a few more over with a GM title and away we go.
    You don't need GMs from 3 different feds. You need 3 GMs (e.g Rogers, Schmalz, Johansen) and players from 3 federations (e.g Schmalz, Bjelobrk and a bunch of Aussies).

  5. #5
    CC Candidate Master jase's Avatar
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    Having a foreign GM living in Australia for the next couple of years will have many benefits, assuming he wishes to play chess while he's here.

    Regarding GM norm tournaments:

    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    You need 3 GMs (e.g Rogers, Schmalz, Johansen) and players from 3 federations (e.g Schmalz, Bjelobrk and a bunch of Aussies).
    This is insufficient. A tournament requires at least 4 foreign players to satisfy the requirements for a title tournament.

    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Anyone know when the last GM norm event was held in Australia (has there ever been one)?
    Ian and Cathy Rogers ran three excellent title tournaments in Sydney in the late 1980s/early 1990s. The last GM tournament in Australia was in 1999, which was my QVB Chess Festival mentioned by Liberaci. There were 5 foreign players [2 GMs, 3 IMs] plus 5 locals: Rogers, Johansen, Wohl, Solomon, West.

    I've had another venture in the pipeline for some time now but it requires a lot of time and energy on my part to make it happen. I haven't been willing or able to make that investment, so the concepts lie dormant in my head, and in document form in my laptop. But that could change ...

    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    I guess it is also debatable whether it is worth running a GM norm event when nobody is near the 2500 rating level.
    Yep yep. It's a problem. But I do think we do have players with the ability to perform at 2600 against a field of IMs and GMs. Immediately coming to mind are Smerdon, Zhao, and Wallace. Now the first two are probably concentrating on university studies, while the 3rd is on a siesta from competitive chess. I don't think it's beyond Wohl or Lane either, but with such limited opportunities it's going to be tough to acquire a 3rd homegrown GM in the near future.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase
    This is insufficient. A tournament requires at least 4 foreign players to satisfy the requirements for a title tournament.
    Are you sure about that? All I could find in the FIDE handbook regarding federations was:

    1.43 Federations of opponents.
    At least two federations other than that of the title applicant must be included, except for 1.43a-1.43e.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Are you sure about that? All I could find in the FIDE handbook regarding federations was:

    1.43 Federations of opponents.
    At least two federations other than that of the title applicant must be included, except for 1.43a-1.43e.
    FIDE Title Regulations 8.5 require at least 1/3 of players shall not come from the same Federation of the candidate, and at least 4 opponents must be from federations other than his own. (exceptions are 8.8 and 8.9)

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    As no one showed interest in my previous posting shown below do you have any other alternatives, or do we just ignore the problem.

    __________________________________________
    Now is the first time I understand the system. If OZ players are serious we should sponser sufficient o/s players for e.g., GM's, sorry to say but from poor 3rd world countries so they may appreciate, and keep them them here for about 6 months so everyone who is interested can get sufficent games against them to earn their FIDE rating, or for at least so the top players to achieve their norms.

    We need one generous sponcer or a large campaign OZ wide, who is interested?

    This project would even entice me to seriously study chess for a year in preparation. Nothing else would!

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaun
    FIDE Title Regulations 8.5 require at least 1/3 of players shall not come from the same Federation of the candidate, and at least 4 opponents must be from federations other than his own. (exceptions are 8.8 and 8.9)
    Is that in the handbook on the FIDE website (the numbering seems to be different)?

    I wish they would get their act together and publish a handbook that is not self-contradictory (there are several instances of contradiction on the website).

  10. #10
    CC International Master JGB's Avatar
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    1/3 from a different nation as the candidate? Holding our next GM Tournament seems tough now, let alone producing a GM.

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    looks like we ignore the problem

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGB
    1/3 from a different nation as the candidate? Holding our next GM Tournament seems tough now, let alone producing a GM.
    I would have thought getting a percentage of foreign players could be achieved by running a joint venture with NZ, who could send an IM or two.

    Getting the number of countries would be harder. It would require taking advantage of a window where an overseas player was in Australia, or had just migrated and not yet changed nationality.

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout
    I would have thought getting a percentage of foreign players could be achieved by running a joint venture with NZ, who could send an IM or two.

    Getting the number of countries would be harder. It would require taking advantage of a window where an overseas player was in Australia, or had just migrated and not yet changed nationality.
    You are gradually coming around to my position. Philippines has lots of chess players as you can see from Sydney comps. Invite them over, we can billet them in Sydney. I would be prepared to donate heavily for this project though I would not directly benefit from it. Maybe many other people are also prepared to donate for something special like this.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout
    I would have thought getting a percentage of foreign players could be achieved by running a joint venture with NZ, who could send an IM or two.

    Getting the number of countries would be harder. It would require taking advantage of a window where an overseas player was in Australia, or had just migrated and not yet changed nationality.
    The trouble with New Zealand is that any more than one or two players would pull the average rating down to the point that GM norms become very difficult.

  15. #15
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    The trouble with New Zealand is that any more than one or two players would pull the average rating down to the point that GM norms become very difficult.
    Yes, it's a bit of a balancing act getting the point where the average goes down sufficiently that the norm clicks over to require an extra half-point.

    The other side of the coin is that if a player is lower rated then in principle they are easier to win or draw against (which is why the norm requirement is higher) so the prospect of getting the norm doesn't necessarily lessen.

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