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  1. #1
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    OZ Champs and Juniors

    Hello Everyone,

    The ACF bulletin states

    "2005/2006 Australian Championships and Australian Junior Championships: The ACF has officially approved the bid of the organising committee (comprising Graeme Gardiner, Ian Murray and John Humphrey) to host both the Australian Championships and Australian Junior Championships at the Carlton Crest Hotel in central Brisbane (www.carltonhotels.com.au/brisbane/). The dates are from 28 December 2005 to 9 January 2006 inclusive."

    Just out of personal curiosity-What was the official protocol for the tendering and acceptance of the bid/s?

    Cheers Fg7
    Last edited by firegoat7; 02-04-2005 at 11:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Hello,

    Wouldn't mind a reply to this one?

    Cheers Fg7

  3. #3
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Use your noggin!

    http://www.auschess.org.au/constitution/

    Have a look under the allocation of tournaments bit I think they may have tendered the ONLY bid in the timeframe specified and it was accepted by the ACF.

    Hopefully it will be a great event although we would still like to see the Aus Juniors run ALWAYS as a significant event in it's own right and with significantly different needs to those of the Aus Champs or Open.

    Libby
    Last edited by Libby; 06-05-2005 at 08:33 AM.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby
    Use your noggin!

    http://www.auschess.org.au/constitution/

    Have a look under the allocation of tournaments bit I think they may have tendered the ONLY bid in the timeframe specified and it was accepted by the ACF.
    not only was it the only bid tendered, but caq was the 'host' state in the rotation schedule.

    Hopefully it will be a great event although we would still like to see the Aus Juniors run ALWAYS as a significant event in it's own right and with significantly different needs to those of the Aus Champs or Open.
    while for most people, running the champs/open and juniors as separate events is the way to go, for the 2006 events, cirumstances do make running the champs/reserves and juniors at the same time the way to go.

  5. #5
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby
    Use your noggin!

    http://www.auschess.org.au/constitution/

    Have a look under the allocation of tournaments bit I think they may have tendered the ONLY bid in the timeframe specified and it was accepted by the ACF.

    Libby
    Thanks Libby!

    So, here is the next question- How are states or affiliated bodies supposed to know about the tendering process? Is there 'official' communication or is it just by chance?

    Because the constitution states "4. Potential organising bodies shall be invited to give "expressions of interest" in organising an ACF title event.". My question is how are they invited, what is the procedure?

    Cheers Fg7

  6. #6
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    while for most people, running the champs/open and juniors as separate events is the way to go, for the 2006 events, cirumstances do make running the champs/reserves and juniors at the same time the way to go.
    I am not aware of the particular circumstances, GG, that make the running the way to go, maybe you could enlighten me?
    I will say, I believe holding the juniors and the champs/reserves at the same time is not a good idea. I think they are quite distinct tournaments and I have my doubts.

    Nevertheless, I do hope that it succeeds and I applaud the efforts by the ACF and the organisers to ensure that the events are planned for long term.

    Cheers Fg7

  7. #7
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    Thanks Libby!

    So, here is the next question- How are states or affiliated bodies supposed to know about the tendering process? Is there 'official' communication or is it just by chance?
    The state associations and ACF affiliated bodies are aware of it since it was decided at an ACF Council meeting that they attend. A call for bids was announced in the 3rd Feb 2005 ACF Bulletin #304.
    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    Because the constitution states "4. Potential organising bodies shall be invited to give "expressions of interest" in organising an ACF title event.".
    The constitution says no such thing. You are quoting part of a by-law.
    However why start at point 4. Point 1 states
    The organisation of an ACF title event (as listed in clause 2 of the ACF Tournament By-Law) may be granted by the ACF Council to:-

    a. The ACF.

    b. An affiliated State Association.

    c. An affiliated body which has the consent of its State Association to organise the event.
    As I said the ACF Council infomed the State Associations and ACF affiliated bodies.

    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    My question is how are they invited, what is the procedure?
    See my answer above. Obviously you missed it in the ACF Bulletin or you wouldnt be asking this question.

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    I am not aware of the particular circumstances, GG, that make the running the way to go, maybe you could enlighten me?
    no problem. Quite a few australian players and coaches etc are planning on going to Queenstown, which is being held straight after our champs.

    Also Graeme is planning on taking a group of juniors to Queenstown as well. Therefore the organising team decided that running the champs and juniors together was a better way to go than forcing the juniors and junior coaches to decide between the Australian Juniors and Queenstown.

    Holding the events at the Carlton Crest is also very expensive, so holding the events over two weeks instead of four means less overheads and more money to be spent on prizemoney and in other areas.

  9. #9
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    I am not aware of the particular circumstances, GG, that make the running the way to go, maybe you could enlighten me?
    I will say, I believe holding the juniors and the champs/reserves at the same time is not a good idea. I think they are quite distinct tournaments and I have my doubts.

    Nevertheless, I do hope that it succeeds and I applaud the efforts by the ACF and the organisers to ensure that the events are planned for long term.

    Cheers Fg7
    The issue has been mentioned on this board previously. Its to do with the Queenstown event in NZ from 15-24 January 2006. It was understood many Aussie players/juniors planned to play in Queenstown. This makes running the juniors after the Aus Championship problematic as it would clash with the NZ event. As such the only option was to run them simultaneously.
    However even taking all that into account it was irrelevant as the only bid submitted was from the CAQ.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby

    Hopefully it will be a great event although we would still like to see the Aus Juniors run ALWAYS as a significant event in it's own right and with significantly different needs to those of the Aus Champs or Open.

    Libby
    Who is this "we" you speak of? And how significant are the needs of the junior as opposed to any other sort of chess tournament?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    Thanks Libby!

    So, here is the next question- How are states or affiliated bodies supposed to know about the tendering process? Is there 'official' communication or is it just by chance?

    Because the constitution states "4. Potential organising bodies shall be invited to give "expressions of interest" in organising an ACF title event.". My question is how are they invited, what is the procedure?

    Cheers Fg7
    Well bids were invited in the ACF Bulletin (for several months) which is recieved by all federations. That seems like pretty good notice to me. And we are talking about an event which is now less than 8 months away, so they can't exactly afford to mess about!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by firegoat7
    I am not aware of the particular circumstances, GG, that make the running the way to go, maybe you could enlighten me?
    I will say, I believe holding the juniors and the champs/reserves at the same time is not a good idea. I think they are quite distinct tournaments and I have my doubts.

    Cheers Fg7
    Running both events at a time saves a lot of money. The biggest expense of these is rent. Rent for a good venue costs thousands. Also it is possible to save money on other expenses as well.

    Good juniors need to make a choice of where their chess 'career' is going. Raymond Song is a perfect example of this. Ray plays up, and so doesn't play the juniors.

    It's not always possible to play both... it's not easy trying to run an Oz Champs/Open/Juniors. I commend Graeme and his organising committee for their common sense, but for Graeme this comes naturally.
    Lee Forace

    Forace´s Legacy - Swap off when you are down.

    It's better to set goals that one cannot acheive than to settle for mediocrity.

  13. #13
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaun
    Who is this "we" you speak of? And how significant are the needs of the junior as opposed to any other sort of chess tournament?
    You should know - the grand 'we."

    Essentially the ACTJCL. And I'm sorry if I continue to cause grief to the adult chess population by suggesting 5 star hotels are not always the venue i would prefer to see juniors playing in.

    A school, or similar environment, is the ideal I would lean towards.

    Do 5 star hotels want children loitering in their foyer, playing on the front step, chasing each other past the dining room?

    It's not the end of the world and I'm not out to scuttle anyone's rowboat. I would just prefer to see the Aus Juniors in a venue where siblings and early finishers can relax safely in the grounds around the playing hall. Where rooms are available for prep & analysis (prep is very difficult to organise with everyone staying all over the place and having to get to a coach - whose accommodation may not be ideal in it's set up for groups of players itself). Where things like sports fields and play equipment may be just outside the door.

    Don't get me wrong, there is plenty to do in Brisbane but some venues afford better opportunities to all levels of juniors, especially young juniors, than others. In Adelaide, and in Mt Buller, we had things set up in a way to encourage interaction between all the kids away from the boards as well as over them. At a 5 star hotel the players in the Champs may choose to "hang out" together in the bar or dining rooms after or between games - that's just not the same hanging out that kids and young families look for.

    Yes, it is about the chess, but Juniors are more than just the mature 16 year old with an intense interest in his game. They include a lot of 10 year olds who end up in trouble for knocking over the potted palms or putting greasy fingers on the artwork.

  14. #14
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberace
    Good juniors need to make a choice of where their chess 'career' is going. Raymond Song is a perfect example of this. Ray plays up, and so doesn't play the juniors.

    .
    I wonder about this really. The competitive pressure on kids can sometimes lead to them stopping chess once they get to a certain age.

    The juniors is more than just a strong tournament - it allows the kids to mingle with like minded kids from other states and look forward to meeting them again at other tournaments. Isn't that something we want to promote - a mindset where kids want to play chess forever? Where the constraints of career and family might lead to them not playing as much chess as they would like, but they still come back to play a Doeberl or an Open from time to time.

    Sure we want our next Grandmaster and we want our juniors to improve as rapidly as possible, but don't knock the benefits of playing the Juniors - argueably a more stressful tournament than the reserves or the Open.

    Incidentally Ray might have decided to play up in the Open in Mt Buller, but initially he would have played the Juniors as well - unfortunately parents do not have unlimited amounts of holiday on tap!

  15. #15
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The state associations and ACF affiliated bodies are aware of it since it was decided at an ACF Council meeting that they attend.
    Ahhhhh. The old boys club was aware of it since they attended the meeting.
    where it was announced. Nice communication!

    Where are the minutes? Where can I get access to them? Where are they available for public viewing? Where were they made available publically to ACF members? Who exactly is an ACF member? Can you name them for me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    A call for bids was announced in the 3rd Feb 2005 ACF Bulletin #304.
    Nice one! I don't read the ACF bulletin. Why should the ACF bulletin be the only method available for gleaning this information? If it is generally recognised that $2.50 of all players fees for entering a tournament in Victoria go to the ACF, a substantial revenue stream I may add, then why can't the ACF ensure that the clubs are at least kept up to date (bi-monthly) with ACF decisions that affect clubs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The constitution says no such thing. You are quoting part of a by-law.
    However why start at point 4. Point 1 states
    As I said the ACF Council infomed the State Associations and ACF affiliated bodies.
    Is a chess club that operates in Victoria an ACF affiliated body? or is it not an ACF affiliated body at all? If the former is true then where was the official communication over such an important issue? If the later is true, Why do Victorian chess clubs pay $2.50 to the ACF for rated games?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Obviously you missed it in the ACF Bulletin or you wouldnt be asking this question.
    Yes, as did the whole MCC committee, somehow I doubt that we were the only chess group unaware of this in Victoria? Were other people aware of the tendering process interstate?

    I just want to make one suggestion here. Is unoffical word of mouth good enough for an organisation claiming to present an image of 'professionalism'?

    Cheers Fg7

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