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  1. #1
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    Box Hill Chess Club needs revamp

    It seems the good arbiter Gerrit Hartland has some issues. At least that better be the case. I have been spat in the face, people, because an arbiter is too lazy.

    I sent an e-mail explaining that I could not play on the recent Friday night - on the Thursday (due to unforseen circumstances). I have never done this before, and all I requested was a postponed game.

    Lo and behold, I called Gerrit to see what was going on with my game, and he has no idea what I'm talking about. Now I cannot compete for 1st place honours (which was $500), and a forfeit makes my credibility worsen. I believe a full refund of tournament entry fee, at the very least, is in order. Let us hope that this sort of thing doesn't spread, people.

    -Honour the Kin-

  2. #2
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDevilKin
    I sent an e-mail explaining that I could not play on the recent Friday night - on the Thursday (due to unforseen circumstances). I have never done this before, and all I requested was a postponed game.
    Just one comment. E-mail is not the most reliable form of communication. If it meant that much to you a phone call to the DoP before time might have saved some grief.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  3. #3
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Moved from chess Australia to Australian chess. This is not really a news item that is usually in the Chess Australia area...
    GO THE DRAGONS!
    GO Western Sydney Wanderers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski's signature
    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

  4. #4
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    nobbled starting line up

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDevilKin
    Now I cannot compete for 1st place honours (which was $500), and a forfeit makes my credibility worsen. I believe a full refund of tournament entry fee, at the very least, is in order.
    i'm weeping ...



    ... for all the division B players who are "told" they're not allowed to win first prize at all!



    eclectic
    .

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    i'm weeping ...



    ... for all the division B players who are "told" they're not allowed to win first prize at all!



    eclectic
    i have wondered about this and I think i have asked before but forgotten the answer if it has been answered.

    Can a player play up a division(s) if they want to, or are they forced to play in a particular division?

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    I'd obviously like to hear from others about their sides of the story but from what you say it is indeed disappointing, particularly if you were even willing to reschedule.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  7. #7
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    1. I did not have th DoP's phone number (I had to call a friend to get in contact with the DoP on the Friday night).

    2. Why give out an e-mail address if you aren't going to use it?

    By the way, I also don't agree that B-division players can't compete for 'A-division' prizes - they should be there for all to win.

  8. #8
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDevilKin
    1. I did not have th DoP's phone number (I had to call a friend to get in contact with the DoP on the Friday night).

    2. Why give out an e-mail address if you aren't going to use it?
    I didn't say that Email isn't a extremely useful and convenient form of communication. However, a key part of the communication process is feedback to ensure the message has been received and understood. If I hadn't heard back from the email 24 hours before the schedule start time then it is definitely worth the effort to start follow up with a phone call.

    Sending an email off into the ether and expecting that the DoP had received it and rescheduled the game without receiving a confirmation does not seem a wise strategy to me.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  9. #9
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDevilKin
    It seems the good arbiter Gerrit Hartland has some issues. At least that better be the case. I have been spat in the face, people, because an arbiter is too lazy.
    Whilst we do not know the full story, only your version DD, may I suggest some resolution for you.

    1) It is difficult to remain calm when we have suffered some sort of injustice, or perceived misjustice. That said, it is important to take one step backwards when dealing with conflict issues. The risk is that if you don't you may box yourself into moral positions, which in hindisght seem spur of the moment and risk alienating yourself or GH from the chess community.


    The first thing you need to do is accept that all people are humans, even arbiters. We all understand that both you and GH are reasonable people who normally would get along just fine. However mistakes are made, learn from them then move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by DD

    I sent an e-mail explaining that I could not play on the recent Friday night - on the Thursday (due to unforseen circumstances). I have never done this before, and all I requested was a postponed game.

    Lo and behold, I called Gerrit to see what was going on with my game, and he has no idea what I'm talking about. Now I cannot compete for 1st place honours (which was $500), and a forfeit makes my credibility worsen.
    Ok. So there are some communication issues. What you probably need to do is to approach the Box Hill committee, to ensure that these problems do not occur in the future.

    Now every tournament has a disputes committee. This is your proper channel for addressing tournament disputes. You need to write a letter, detailing your grievances about the incident. This letter should be handed to the committee. If there is no disputes committee, then you need to organise one from the tournament. Speak up and stand up for you rights, so that these sort of incidents don't happen to somebody else in the future.


    Quote Originally Posted by DD
    I believe a full refund of tournament entry fee, at the very least, is in order. Let us hope that this sort of thing doesn't spread, people.
    Now this unfortunately is not realistic. You have already played a number of games and Box Hill will occur a CV rating fee for those games. Moreover it sets a bad precedent for future withdrawals. While you may have suffered an honest unfortunate incident, not all chess players are known for their moral character. Lets just say some will rort these loopholes if it is made available ( I have witnessed this with my own eyes).

    Now I understand that chess is highly competitive and that often we all get highly strung when playing. My only advice is to take a few deep breaths and reflect on what it is you want to achieve. Choose re-conciliation over alienation, you will be better off for it.

    cheers Fg7
    Last edited by firegoat7; 13-03-2005 at 01:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDevilKin
    By the way, I also don't agree that B-division players can't compete for 'A-division' prizes - they should be there for all to win.
    My understanding is that this is because of the way Box Hill structures its events with permanent acceleration applied to Div A players.
    As such under those circumstances it is not fair that Div B players be eligible for the top prizes. If Box Hill ran their events as normal swisses or even normal accelerated swisses then this would not be the case and all players should/would be eligible for the top prizes.

  11. #11
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Just one comment. E-mail is not the most reliable form of communication.
    Exactly. Among other things his ISP's mail server could go down, in which case he may not get the email in time.
    Also if the email is important it is often worthwhile in the body of the message to request that the recipient actually acknowledge they have read it. That way if you havent had a response in what you deem is a reasonable amount of time then you need to try another means of communication.

    FWIW Gerrit's phone number is listed on the Box Hill web site under committee.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Sending an email off into the ether and expecting that the DoP had received it and rescheduled the game without receiving a confirmation
    does not seem a wise strategy to me.
    Did that in a work context once. Ranted and raved that the despicable dastard sat on his bum and did not bother to respond to reasonable requests. Pity that he died previous day.

  13. #13
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    Revamp at Box Hill

    As assistant arbiter for the current tournament at the Box Hill Chess Club, I can assure darkDevilkin that Gerrit Hartland is NOT LAZY! I currently have my "L" plates on, learning all that is involved in being an arbiter. It is an enormous amount of work - particularly when a large number of players is involved. This includes organising the pairings (and people do unexpectedly need to postpone games - which means the draw has to be redone) supervising the games - especially monitoring mobile phone calls during games - which has been amply talked about on other threads, entering the game results and so on.

    darkDevilkin might not be aware of the work that Gerrit undertakes for the Whitehorse Junior Chess - in organising and running the Rookies Cup.

    In addition, Gerrit is organising the Victorian Junior Chess Championships on behalf of Chess Victoria.

    As well as the above, Gerrit is trying to obtain a venue for the Chess Squad at a reasonable price.

    Gerrit is doing a terrific job!

  14. #14
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    Go Kerry

  15. #15
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    I think it's clear to anyone who spends much time at the club that Gerrit is by no means lazy, and works very hard for Box Hill and related concerns.

    What I'm wondering is:

    a) Was the email eventually received?

    and

    b) If so, and it if is timestamped as having been sent prior to whatever the minimum postponement notification time was under the rules, does it count regardless of whether or not it was read by the arbiter prior to the start of that round of the tournament? If not, why not?

    (and if there's no minimum notification time for postponements in the rules I'd suggest adding one, postponements are not uncommon and it's worth having something explicitly defined to point to when disputes arrive over the granting or denial of such postponements)

    and

    c) Why didn't the player notify the tournament organisers earlier, instead of dashing off an email the day before and hoping for the best?

    I can't remember if there are specific rules about minimum notification times, but I do remember that the club makes a very strong and clear point of asking that players who need a postponement notify the club as soon as possible and not at the last minute.

    (this one's for you, JN)



    As for my personal take on the issue, on two or three occasions I've been forced to miss a round at (too) short notice due to unavoidable circumstances. On each of those occasions I've happily taken my zero point. For at least one of those I was in realistic prize contention (I think I still won the prize anyway, though). Hiccups in my personal arrangements/circumstances are not the responsibility of the arbiters of a chess tournament. I see postponements as a favour rather than an expected occurrance.
    we have between us the barrier of a common language

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