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  1. #136
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos

    ............
    I never stated I hadnt spoken to the DOP. I consistently told you and others if you wanted an answer then you should talk to the DOP. Gareth did that and got an answer as did AR. You could have done the same thing...........
    The DOP's number or email address is not listed on NSWCA's site nor ACF site that I could see. Though a member of NSWCA I have not received any correspondence in last 2 years with his contact nos. Previous to that period my stuff is packed up.

    I think it is rude and invasive for ordinary members to contact IA's querying their decisions. It is much better coming from an official.

    When Gareth and AR reported their conversations with the DOP they did not relate that the results would be re-submitted to the ratings officers so what is there to gain?

    A DOP could tell an ordinary member anything (not saying this DOP would) it is what is sent to ratings officers that is important.

    FINALLY, I DID NOT NEED TO GO TO THE DOP BECAUSE I ALREADY KNEW FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH WHAT HAD OCCURRED BUT I WAS NOT LETTING ON JUST YET - I WANTED IT TO SEE IF IT WOULD BE FIXED UP WITHOUT ORDINARY MEMBER PRODDING AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!

  2. #137
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    The DOP's number or email address is not listed on NSWCA's site nor ACF site that I could see. Though a member of NSWCA I have not received any correspondence in last 2 years with his contact nos. Previous to that period my stuff is packed up.
    Charles's email address was on a number of NSWCA tournament adverts sent out to members last year. Also Charles is President of the NSWJCL. His contact details are available on their web page. On top of that you could easily have asked for his email adress from others on this BB.

    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    I think it is rude and invasive for ordinary members to contact IA's querying their decisions. It is much better coming from an official.
    You and others were making accusations against Charles. It was reasonable you spoke to him directly about them. At least Gareth and AR chose to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    When Gareth and AR reported their conversations with the DOP they did not relate that the results would be re-submitted to the ratings officers so what is there to gain?
    There was no reason that they should. I had made it clear that if the games were not played I would rerun the June rating period. It was established the games were not played. Therefore it was clear I would re-run the June rating period.
    Perhaps I gave you to much credit for being able to work that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    A DOP could tell an ordinary member anything (not saying this DOP would) it is what is sent to ratings officers that is important.
    I stated that if the games were not played the June ratings would be rerun. It was established the games did not take place. Therefore I see no reason for you to assume that the june rating period would not be rerun.

    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    FINALLY, I DID NOT NEED TO GO TO THE DOP BECAUSE I ALREADY KNEW FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH WHAT HAD OCCURRED BUT I WAS NOT LETTING ON JUST YET - I WANTED IT TO SEE IF IT WOULD BE FIXED UP WITHOUT ORDINARY MEMBER PRODDING AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!
    I stated in the shoutbox on July 6th exactly what would happen if the games had not taken place.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  3. #138
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    BG:
    Charles's email address was on a number of NSWCA tournament adverts sent out to members last year. Also Charles is President of the NSWJCL. His contact details are available on their web page. On top of that you could easily have asked for his email adress from others on this BB.

    A/C: I did not receive any but I am not complaining. I did not know he was president of NSWJCL and I do not normally visit their site. Again I think it is a bit over the top and rude to bring this up.

    BG:
    You and others were making accusations against Charles. It was reasonable you spoke to him directly about them. At least Gareth and AR chose to do so.

    A/C:
    Yes they did but did they relate that you and him had already agreed to re-do the ratings which would have laid everything to rest? It makes it suspicious that you had not discussed it with him. Also I did not need to because I speak to horses. I already knew there were extraneous conditions for his action and note I never mentioned him by name and because I appreciate all his work for chess.

    Unfortunately it is not possible to discuss such issues without people maybe wondering who may be the figures at the centre, but I don't think I deliberately tried to implicate anyone - just the situation.

    BG:
    There was no reason that they should. I had made it clear that if the games were not played I would rerun the June rating period. It was established the games were not played. Therefore it was clear I would re-run the June rating period.
    Perhaps I gave you to much credit for being able to work that out.

    A/C: As this was posted on shoutbox which can quickly get snowed under both AR and myself missed it. At this period I was paying dearly for internet cafe use and just whizzing in and out - expecting anything to be in St George thread where it should be.

    BG:
    I stated that if the games were not played the June ratings would be rerun. It was established the games did not take place. Therefore I see no reason for you to assume that the june rating period would not be rerun.

    BG:
    I stated in the shoutbox on July 6th exactly what would happen if the games had not taken place.

    A/C: Both answered above as you to chose to answer them out of thread - your fault.
    Last edited by antichrist; 24-07-2005 at 06:57 PM.

  4. #139
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    I did not receive any but I am not complaining. I did not know he was president of NSWJCL and I do not normally visit their site. Again I think it is a bit over the top and rude to bring this up.
    You seem to have taken a keen interest in the NSWJCL in the past. Perhaps it slipped your mind he was the President. Yes i can imagine you think its rude to bring it up as it shows you could have easily determined his contact details from a number of sources. Least of being post #6 in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    Yes they did but did they relate that you and him had already agreed to re-do the ratings which would have laid everything to rest? It makes it suspicious that you had not discussed it with him. Also I did not need to because I speak to horses. I already knew there were extraneous conditions for his action and note I never mentioned him by name and because I appreciate all his work for chess.
    You may not have directly mentioned it but it was clear to all who the arbiter was.

    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    As this was posted on shoutbox which can quickly get snowed under both AR and myself missed it. At this period I was paying dearly for internet cafe use and just whizzing in and out - expecting anything to be in St George thread where it should be.
    jase asked the question in the shoutbox. As such that is where I responded.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  5. #140
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    You seem to have taken a keen interest in the NSWJCL in the past. Perhaps it slipped your mind he was the President. Yes i can imagine you think its rude to bring it up as it shows you could have easily determined his contact details from a number of sources. Least of being post #6 in this thread.

    A/C
    How many times must I say that I had already spoken to the horse so no need for any more investigation. I did try to find his contact address when you told me to notify him myself very late in the piece. NOTE THAT YOU DID NOT STATE THAT YOU HAD ALREADY DISCUSSED WITH HIM. MAKES ONE JUSTLY OR UNJUSTLY SUSPICIOUS.

    BG
    You may not have directly mentioned it but it was clear to all who the arbiter was.

    A/C
    Other people mentioned by name and were more descriptive in implying things than I was.

    BG
    jase asked the question in the shoutbox. As such that is where I responded.
    A/C
    I will let any audience judge your responses - not necessarily implying anything.

  6. #141
    CC FIDE Master
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    The amended score table for the 2005 St. George Open was submitted by the ACF to FIDE on July 24th.

    The NSWCA President should immediately advise the ACF that the tournament report as submitted is incorrect and FIDE should disregard the report with apologies from the ACF.

    FIDE should be advised that the correct report will be submitted within a few weeks.

    FIDE in it’s Presidential Board Meeting in Doha, QATAR in May 2005 unanimously agreed that “there will be severe punishments for players, arbiters, officials, organisers and federations in proven cases of malpractice, up to a ban for life.” (see FIDE minutes on web page)

    One player in the St. George Open won his first six games but was unable to play his other three games.

    FIDE defines this as “withdrawn”.

    FIDE requires the results to be submitted as 0-1 forfeit for each of the three games not played by this player.

    The correct amended score table has the results ½ - ½ for each of the three games showing a final score of 7.5/9. This is incorrect according to FIDE regulations.

    Games not played cannot be counted by FIDE or ACF. He scored 6 points (not 7.5) from the six games he played. The three games were in fact agreed drawn by telephone as now acknowledged by the arbiter with no requirement for either player to attend any venue – This is not permitted by FIDE or by ACF.

    The other games in the event that were also agreed drawn by telephone with no requirement of either player to attend any venue should also not be recorded as draws. FIDE regulations require these games to be recorded as forfeits (0f) for each player.

    I would recommend that the amended score tables duly signed by the arbiter, and checked by the NSWCA President be submitted to the ACF for FIDE rating. The event will be processed by FIDE as a Swiss system event due to the forfeited games.

    I suggest the amended score table be sent to the NSW Ratings officer so the ACF ratings can be amended to reflect the actual games played.

    All FIDE regulations appear on the FIDE web page and if any clarification is required expert advise is always available a phone call away in Sydney.

    Players who enter FIDE rated events are required to play their games at the venue and times appointed for the tournament.

    The game of chess is brought into disrepute if arbiters and players agree to the results of unplayed games.

    It took 139 messages and 3000 views on this bulletin board to correct the 3 unplayed games – what about the other unplayed games?

    Peter Parr (OAM)
    FIDE International Arbiter 27 years
    Member of FIDE Rules Commission 1982-1986
    Member of FIDE Arbiters Commission 1990-1994
    Member of FIDE CHIPS Commission 1982-1990
    Member of FIDE Computer Commission 1990-1994

  7. #142
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Four hours have elapsed since Parr executed checkmate. And the opponents are still staring at the board.

  8. #143
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    Four hours have elapsed since Parr executed checkmate. And the opponents are still staring at the board.
    Nah, there's still wondering is it's already their move. The powers that be are running around like headless chooks looking for how to spin this.

    AR

  9. #144
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    From what I gather a list was sent to FIDE for June rating period, another sent 24th July with amendments for 3 games.

    But if P. Parr's objection that there were more than 3 unplayed "draws" holds up, thus meaning a third result list will have to be sent to FIDE, we are going to look very sick.

    I really can't believe it after all what has taken place the past 3 weeks.

    You people are lucky I don't put my swearing into print - it is very rich.

    Someone tell me that I have it wrong - Bill, you will do!

  10. #145
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter_parr
    It took 139 messages and 3000 views on this bulletin board to correct the 3 unplayed games – what about the other unplayed games?

    Peter Parr (OAM)
    FIDE International Arbiter 27 years
    Member of FIDE Rules Commission 1982-1986
    Member of FIDE Arbiters Commission 1990-1994
    Member of FIDE CHIPS Commission 1982-1990
    Member of FIDE Computer Commission 1990-1994
    Hi Peter, sorry to bother you, just wondering if I could talk to you at some point regarding the grade match fiasco. You can think I am biased because I am involved, but I strongly believe that what happened in the grade matches is far worse than what happened in the St George club. In any case, in my view these two reasons should be enough to suck anybody involved.

  11. #146
    CC Candidate Master The_Wise_Man's Avatar
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    St George Leagues Club Chess Club Committee Meeting

    I have yet to comment on the tournament in an official capacity.

    I have been quiet working away gathering advice and assessing the situation.
    This issue will be talked about at the committee meeting on Wednesday night.

    As such, I will then post about this issue (within a few days after our committee meeting on Wednesday night!)

    Wise
    Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
    Plato

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Wise_Man
    I have yet to comment on the tournament in an official capacity.

    I have been quiet working away gathering advice and assessing the situation.
    This issue will be talked about at the committee meeting on Wednesday night.

    As such, I will then post about this issue (within a few days after our committee meeting on Wednesday night!)

    Wise
    I navigated via the NSWCA links page and could not find the St George web-site. Can you help us....and does it list who is on the Committee?
    It was not in your thread initiator post#1?

    regards
    starter

  13. #148
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Wise_Man
    As such, I will then post about this issue (within a few days after our committee meeting on Wednesday night!)
    As I sort of wondered in my blog, can you please explain how your club can manage to find itself in two controversies that threaten to destroy the good name of Australian chess?

    AR

  14. #149
    CC Candidate Master The_Wise_Man's Avatar
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    The grade matches is not our controversy...

    its Sydney Academy of Chess controversy... just incase you didn't notice they are doing all the jumping up and down making accusations etc...

    but there is a also Tall Poppy Syndrome at work here...

    and past grievances and political interests at work here...

    But Amiel i do not see it as threatening the good name of Australian chess only a few individuals.

    For Starter, we have just in the last week bought the domain name stgeorgechess.org .... As such, the website is still under construction. i can give you the names of the main committee members though:

    President: Chris Nikolaou; Vice-President: Ngan Koshnitsky; Treasurer: Paul Sike; Secretary Anthony Belz and Club Captain: Charles Zworestine.
    There are another 6-8 committee members with lesser positions.

    (note while there are some reports that Kerry Stead, Lee Forace and Ian Rogers are committee members, I can assure you that whilst they are members of the St George club, they are not comitttee members).

    Wise
    Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
    Plato

  15. #150
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Wise_Man
    its Sydney Academy of Chess controversy... just incase you didn't notice they are doing all the jumping up and down making accusations etc...
    Your statements are careless.

    I have highly reliable information that makes your statement unfair. I would be more careful if I were you.

    You must choose absolutely correctly who your enemy is.

    AR

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