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  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    From David Richards: Fg7's right, it's time for the ACF to assert itself, develop a longterm strategy & to restructure. Dennis has already signalled he was disappointed by the rejection of last years restructuring plan. I think we all see now the consequences of that rejection and Australian Chess must learn from that mistake!


    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Dont try putting words into Denis's mouth.
    The only thing Denis was referring to was the failure of his motions to create a position of a Junior Chess Coordinator and a Coordinator for Adult Chess.

    I think you are both right on this.

    I was certainly disappointed by the failure to get any support for my two coordinator motions though this is now in part assuaged by the establishment of the Junior Chess Subcommittee which, if it works well, may prove to be the single most important ACF initiative in recent years.

    I was also disappointed by the defeat of the restructuring proposals, having strongly supported them as well as putting a lot of work into drafting them. Where I probably differ from David is in the effect of their defeat. It is this aspect that I discussed with Bill on the phone recently

    The proposals were only for the restructuring of the ACF's day-to-day administering body, the Council. They would have converted it to a fully-elected Commission instead of a body with an elected Executive and appointed State delegates.

    What they would not have done was to alter the ACF's basic constitutional functions and powers. In practice the position of the ACF in Australian chess would have been unaltered. The ACF now relies heavily on the States to provide personnel to run ACF events and there are just not enough administrators to duplicate functions. Moreover, were the ACF ever to contemplate the running of Australian chess from the grass roots level to the top, a fundamental revolution would be required such as the conversion of the State Associations to ACF Branches subject to ACF control. It doesn't take much imagination to realise how impossible that would be to achieve now or in the near future, even were it thought to be a desirable outcome, bearing in mind the defeat of the modest restructuring proposal and, in the more distant past, proposals for a new constitution and a national membership scheme.

    I think that the ACF's immediate future goals should be to maximise the efficiency of its present structure, and, in so doing, minimise divisive arguments about States' rights, and then to evolve from there. This is not necessarily consistent with my usual approach to problems of this kind but I feel that it is a more realistic approach to achieving some progress in the prevailing conditions.

    Denis Jessop

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    I think that the ACF's immediate future goals should be to maximise the efficiency of its present structure, and, in so doing, minimise divisive arguments about States' rights, and then to evolve from there. This is not necessarily consistent with my usual approach to problems of this kind but I feel that it is a more realistic approach to achieving some progress in the prevailing conditions.

    Denis Jessop
    Good luck Dennis, nice piece!
    Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

  3. #33
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    The ACF Commission would not have avoided the problem of Mt. Buller.

    However my complaint with David is that much earlier in another thread he said regarding Denis that
    Quote Originally Posted by David Richards
    He was a strong advocate for the ACF plan to centralise control of the direction of Australian Chess earlier this year but was beaten down by the State.
    It was always clear that the centralised control of Australian Chess was never a goal of the ACF Commission as the Commission did nothing about the ACF's powers, just the Council structure.

    David then provided the following quote of Denis's to support his claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Denis Jessup
    As for its being the ACF's responsibility to bring more adults into chess or to see that ex-juniors keep on playing, I'm not so sure. Though favouring an active role for the ACF in such matters, I see the rejection of the ACF Commission proposal, which I supported, and the failure of anyone to second my proposals for Chess Co-ordinators at the April Council meeting as indicators that the prevailing view is for the ACF to stick to things that are National in character in that they are better, or necessarily, to be done by the ACF than by the States.
    Although Denis laments the failure of the Commission proposal it is quite clear from his post that he was not suggesting to give the ACF wider powers.

    At the time Denis mentioned the failure of the Co-ordinator roles he should have mentioned the formation of the ACF Junior Subcommittee which was I believe unanimously supported.
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 31-01-2005 at 10:50 PM. Reason: spelling correction

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The ACF Commission would not have avoided the problem of Mt. Buller.

    However my complaint with David is that much earlier in another thread he said regarding Denis that


    It was always clear that the centralised control of Australian Chess was never a goal of the ACF Commission as the Commission did nothing about the ACF's powers, just the Council structure.

    David then provided the following quote of Denis's to support his claim.


    Although Denis laments the failure of the Commission proposal it is quite clear from his post that he was not suggesting to give the ACF wider powers.

    At the time Denis mentioned the failure of the Co-ordinator roles he should have mentioned the formation of the ACF Junior Subcommittee which was I believe unanimously supported.

    Don't tell me, let me guess - you were one of the lemons? Am I right, or am I right?
    Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

  5. #35
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_Richards
    Don't tell me, let me guess - you were one of the lemons? Am I right, or am I right?
    As you are aware from Denis's post the Co-ordinator role motions failed to get a seconder.
    As such no vote was taken.

    As for the ACF Commission it is well documented that NSW voted unanimously against it along with two of the VIC delegates.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    As you are aware from Denis's post the Co-ordinator role motions failed to get a seconder.
    As such no vote was taken.

    As for the ACF Commission it is well documented that NSW voted unanimously against it along with two of the VIC delegates.

    Lemon!
    Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

  7. #37
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_Richards
    Lemon!
    Unlike you who represent no one, NSW discussed the ACF Commission proposal at its AGM at the time, informed the members that they intended to vote against it and voted accordingly.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Unlike you who represent no one, NSW discussed the ACF Commission proposal at its AGM at the time, informed the members that they intended to vote against it and voted accordingly.
    Ah, so you weren't the only lemon, there was a whole bunch of lemons and you were just fitting in with the other lemons?
    Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

  9. #39
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_Richards
    Ah, so you weren't the only lemon, there was a whole bunch of lemons and you were just fitting in with the other lemons?
    All you are doing is once again demonstrating what a complete goose you are.
    As usual you are a waste of space.

  10. #40
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    Why is there no information?

    Why is there such a small amount of information about the finances of the event. Even GG seems not to know what happened.

    This is particularly concerning as Mt Buller Chess, the supposed organisation which ran the event is an Incorporated Association (check SA Consumer Affairs or ASIC websites). That means it MUST be a not-for-profit organisation. It must have members, a consittution, financial statements, voting to decide matters..... So how do you become a member of this organisation? Were the organisers members? Who's the secretary, president, treasurer, public officer? Where are the audited financial statements? Or is it all a farce....

    Did the ACF ever get a tournament report? Did they get any money from the Mt Buller Chess? Did the juniors get their $4000, or more because there were more entries than expected?

  11. #41
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ring-A-Rosie
    Did the ACF ever get a tournament report? Did they get any money from the Mt Buller Chess? Did the juniors get their $4000, or more because there were more entries than expected?
    As was explained elsewhere as is the usual case no tournament report is required until the next ACF meeting in March.

  12. #42
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    As was explained elsewhere as is the usual case no tournament report is required until the next ACF meeting in March.
    What happens if the tournament report is not to the level of detail that the acf requires/would like?

  13. #43
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    What happens if the tournament report is not to the level of detail that the acf requires/would like?
    Simple. We will ask for a clarification or if necessary additional details.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidea
    Libby,
    <snip>
    I admit it was refreshling to see the teams from interstate working and bonding as a team. I was very jealous, but admiring as well. What can I do in Victoria? so much petty vying for money and position. I may even withdraw my kid from a club because it seems to be run by a coach and not the organisation I thought.

    As a result, many Vic juniors are left with no real support from a club and the competition seems to be more about the coaches than the kids.
    I think I may have just stuck my neck out, but I guess it had to be said. I will probably be shot down in flames...which will underline the problem.

    <snip>
    n i

    I presume you have posted this observation that a coach is running a Club, not the organisers, with the intention of encouraging some change to occur?
    Please post details here or PM (me) with the name of the Club and/or the coach.


    starter
    Last edited by ursogr8; 02-02-2005 at 08:08 AM.

  15. #45
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
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    Sent a pm to you starter.

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