Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 48
  1. #1
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT
    Posts
    1,127

    Mt Buller - a non-organiser's perspective

    I have been pretty concerned about the post Mt Buller posting. It tells you a lot about Australian chess.

    The knives are out for George. There have been many times over the past six months when I was happily wielding one. I don't disagree with much of the unflattering posting with regard to George's management style however I want to know what checks and balances the ACF has within the system to ensure events like this are run in accordance with the original bid (as a minimum) or better. Why should anyone be able to promise the moon, deliver about half of it, and get a pat on the back for at least "having a go?"

    That isn't right. In fact, it only encourages a ludicrous level of "marketing puff" in bid documents because the important aspect is to win the bid, not deliver the service.

    People were paid to work at this event. That's a double-edged sword. I'm not suggesting it was a "living wage" or a hugely profitable exercise on a personal level for anyone. What I am saying is that people who are contracted to do a job, and paid to do a job, are expected to do that job. Volunteers get cut very little slack themselves so when an event is awarded that budgets to pay people to work on it, perhaps it raised the public's expectations of professionalism.

    I have spent a number of hours trawling some old threads on this topic. Going right back to David's original "Aus Open in Mt Buller" thread. I have to say Garvin, you were keen on attending but you were not interested in David's Mercure packages (#109) -

    I would resent having to pay top dollarfor a place when there are acceptable and cheaper places nearby.
    Way back then (24/6 #128), Jenni made a number of points about the Mercure deals for the Juniors and talked about the ACT accommodation deals. Garvin himself asked us for info. So back then, people must have been aware of the idea that Junior players & families were not going to stampede into a 4.5 star hotel at anything like those prices.

    In the "ACF Announcement" thread George posted (6/7 #47) with regard to a new Mt Buller deal -
    Mt Buller option has NO component of filling rooms as a pre condition for it to work. People could stay wherever but obviously Mt Buller would need to make their accommodation as attractive as possible if they want people staying on the mountain.
    GM Rogers, who had discussions with Roman at the Mercure over the whole idea of a new bid posted (9/7 #99) -

    Mt Buller has already put in writing that there are no minimum rooms to be filled by the ACF.
    George (#326 13/7 crucially AFTER the new bid was accepted) -

    $10000 room vouchers and four rooms negotiated away. In exchange the ACF/organiser does not have to guarantee filling any rooms.
    (The reference to the $10000 room vouchers & four free rooms refers to the details of the offer to be found in Roman's letter of 1/7 which can be found in the "Chess World letter to the ACF" thread #20)

    There was considerable flogging of David in that thread (Chess World letter) over his failure to have everything in writing. Particularly as he contended that the sponsors may have shifted the goalposts. One would assume that any new deal, as a consequence, would be sensitive to having everything in writing. Why then was there a dispute over the sponsorship of the bulletin printing? Surely it was agreed, or not. And if the agreement was not in writing - why not?

    And if there was no component of filling rooms as a pre condition for the deal to work, why were we bludgeoned over our failure to stay at the sponsor's hotel? Why was our failure to support the sponsor an excuse to withdraw or modify services on offer? Why has George recently expressed to me that he only found out about sponsor's lodge accommodation very recently, and that this will be a big plus "next time" at Mt Buller? Why, when Roman's letter of 1/7 - sent to George Howard as ACF President - (Chess World letter thread #20) says -

    3. Other lodge accommodation at $25 per night per bed
    In Garvin's assessment of the Mt Buller shortcomings, he states that the whole committee feels AR cost them at least 15 entries. Maybe he did, would like to know which 15 they were, and what evidence (even anecdotal), they had. However, I think it probably pales in comparison to the potential entries the organisers cost themselves. For example - after receiving news of the lodges "next time" from George, I replied it was a shame they were not publicised this time as both the sponsor and the organisers wrestled with the thorny issue of people staying at the Mercure. Surely they would rather have had us in a sponsor's lodge if we weren't going to be at the Chalet. In return, NSWJCL's Richard G-H emailed me -

    Exactly! That was my reaction too when I received George's revelation about Mercure's five lodges Ė why didn't they tell us about them before? More NSW players would probably be there now if this option had been offered. By the time some of our players got around to thinking about going we had been led to believe that all the lodge accommodation had been snapped up by others (Qld and ACT).
    Does that explain why some people didn't come? Put the whole thing into context another way. The Open attracted smaller than expected numbers but the Juniors (in my understanding) exceeded the budgeted numbers by about 10 entries. Why is it so? Perhaps because a high proportion of juniors (not all) travelled with coordinated coach or JCL organised groups. One or two people from each group taking the responsibility I did for the ACT, to encourage them to attend, assist with transport, accommodation and the flow of information. So no hangover from Cordover, no nasty trolling from AR affected the juniors actually entering the event and - courtesy of my presence on this BB and my efforts on the internet elsewhere - I actually had encouraging information to give them.

    Because where was the information otherwise? Blame AR for his trolling (amongst others) but as I said on another thread, it's pretty easy to quash that kind of trolling with good quality rebuttal. Instead, the organising team - other than Garvin - opted out of the BB altogether. That's OK, if you're providing the information elsewhere, in a much more suitable location. It was also valuable (going back over the posting now) to see what people were raising as concerns. People like AR and peanbrain might be stirrers but the underlying questions were valid, and not limited to them. Many of them remained unaddressed, right to the event itself. But the information, when provided, on the website and in the booklets was not what the BB "trolls" were asking for. And if you weren't a BB "troll" you had no updates, no sense of the accommodation options, no sense of the social activities planned, the facilities in Mt Buller. In short, I don't think the pre event communication off this board did much at all to get players to the event.

    And there is a responsibility to provide this information because you are not taking people to Sydney or Perth or even Ballarat. You are taking people to a small, closed resort with many facilities closed or restricted in summer. Where many providers required minimum booking or deposits to open their doors and where nobody had friends or family to scrounge a bed or offer advice. Where two bids have failed already. So the organisers needed to encourage players to participate, not blame others because the negatives were allowed to take root in the vaccuum. Blame AR if you must but his post (#8 Mt Buller Championships thread) kind of hits the nail on the head -

    Oh man, you so need a PR adviser .... See, your response is not going to help. It'll just rally people to Jenni's corner. What you need to do is this. Just bang out the positives, if any, of the MB II deal, focus on these, and try as much as possible to divert attention away from minuses and onto the pluses.
    I was very concerned that I did not see the ACF members asking George to be accountable when he opened a new thread (Mt Buller Championships) on 13/7 - the day after the bid is accepted - cancelling the promised free buses from Melbourne and replacing them with the Mansfield shuttle, across all events, because he had a budget of $2000 and the actual cost was more like $20000. Only Jenni, peanbrain and myself pushed him on the issue publicly. Did this flag concern for the Council? If not, why not? It wasn't about the buses themselves, it was about what that potentially meant across the whole budget. How real were the figures and the benefits?

    From the Mt Buller Championships thread -

    #72 on 14/7 George says (my emphasis) -
    We will also have a minibus do a daily run to Mansfield wait sufficient time for people to do shopping then come back to Mt Buller. We will find the money if the budgeted amount is insufficient.
    #80
    The shuttle bus Mt Buller/Mansfield cost $3000 so that can certainly be achieved. A bus shuttle of minibus every day will happen.
    #95
    budget for buses was $2000 which was for the shuttle which is now $3000 but can be covered in the budget
    and in response to me suggesting every second day might be sufficient -

    #114
    I want to cover all bases re shuttle bus so there are fewer grizzles so every day it will be.
    In the end, the Juniors received a bus 3 times over the course of their event. Why? Had they been surveyed and their needs assessed as being less than an every day, or every second day service? Not to my knowledge. If, again, the reduction in service was because the service had not been properly costed, does that concern the ACF? If the juniors, attending in better than budgeted numbers, had the funds within their own tournament funding package - where did this money go instead? This isn't an accusation of fraud or misappropriation. I think we should be able to ask what additional costs etc resulted in funds not being available to fund this service for the Juniors.

    Similarly, the advertised BBQ and party cancelled at the end of the Juniors was one of few things actually promoted in the ridiculously costly and wasteful information booklet. Jenni posted that George ran the excuse that too many people were leaving early (doesn't that just mean catering for a smaller - 50-60% - group of players?) When pressed, he didn't want to spend the money (or that is what we have been told on the BB). Why not? Will he be held accountable? What was the budget for the party? What planning (ordering of food etc) did he have to cancel or had no planning or ordering been done at all? Given, again, the Juniors attended in better than budgeted numbers, why was there any issue regarding money for their party at all? Does that concern anyone at all?

    I have been told that even the sports hire at LaTrobe, for which each of about 80 juniors paid $20, may have run at a profit. Even in the vicinity of $600 profit (these are hearsay figures). Should this be correct - is that not $600 in additional funding which could have made up any shortfall for the party at least? Anyone looking for more than a sausage, bread, chips, lollies & softdrink (even cordial) would have been barking up the wrong tree

    We could, from a junior slant, climb back on the hobby horse of the Juniors subsidising the seniors ( who did get their party & shuttle even if they didn't attend in the budgeted numbers). In part, that's OK. I subscribe to the idea that a healthy junior environment is enhanced by a healthy senior one but tell me how much that subsidy should be and when the grown ups needs to start paying for themselves? Don't the juniors, by playing rated events, contribute a significant stream of revenue in rating fees? Don't they pay a levy to the ACF for every school team playing across Australia? At which point do juniors stop "contributing" and become the whole bread and butter?

    There was an organising committee for these events. Not George alone. Garvin, in particular, seems keen to emphasise they were powerless against George. But to some extent, most of the committee seem to intimate they would have liked some things to operate differently. Well - why didn't they? If you have strong convictions about something, share them with the other members of the committee. Be prepared to say that something is wrong. Say it collectively and don't back down if someone is unreasonable. Trawling through old threads Garvin, I come up with you having done tertiary level studies in sports administration and George suggests you have training in event management. That surely had you well placed to deal with some issues or even to understand the sorts of problems that may arise. Alex & Andrew had run the events in Adelaide, very well from all reports. Could nobody assert themself and say - this is what should be done. If all members of the committee felt this way, and seemed to enjoy popular support on the BB anyway, couldn't change have happened? Instead a chain of bickering and finger pointing got underway on the BB. That must have fostered a better working relationship in Mt Buller - not.

    On 11/8 Garvin said (#597 Mt Buller Championship)
    It is not just George that is running the Australian Open, there is an organising team and we all have different and overlapping responsibilities.
    It's very unclear who was responsible for what, only that, in the aftermath, George is responsible for everything?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm ravenous for gossip. But I would rather have seen proactive steps towards change. I know you all knew my position. You had certainly all received an email from me where I put my case for the problems created for me, as ACTJCL President and coordinator of our team, months ago.

    I fought and fought for some organisation of activities for the children at the Junior and it wasn't very nice to get the sense that our own people didn't give a toss if the pool was open (as normal) for the children. And if they didn't want to negotiate harder for us with the sponsor over the pool, what were they planning? Garvin posted in response to me raising the cinema being open on Saurdays & Mondays -

    this will be open much more for us.
    Was it? No. We had one extra session when I finally decided to ring the cinema myself in December. They didn't even know we would be there. That late, there was little they could do for us in arranging extra movies. I thought - maybe - this was the sort of task George would follow up in his weeks up at Mt Buller. And although we ended up with a very good deal on the hire of the Sports Hall (thanks to the Saints), George told me it was too expensive many months ago. Obviously he had done a lot of research and attempted some negotiations from early on Heavens! Why would you want some good publicity!

    The real problem I have is the extravagent promises made for the Mt Buller events. With due respect to those who applaud George for "having a go" and for noidea's staements that it was a good tournament and everyone pitched in - we were promised more. People were paid to deliver more. That is why everything from the flow of information, media coverage, conduct of the committee etc strikes hard. Alternatives were put on the table at the ACF meeting but this one was selected because of the package of benefits it could deliver.

    I am most unsure that the ACF took into account the actual capacity of our organisation to deliver the promised event. An OK event was delivered. I've been to many OK events.
    Last edited by Libby; 30-01-2005 at 09:26 PM.

  2. #2
    CC International Master Kerry Stead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,060
    Outstanding post Libby ... the matters you have raised are the ones of most concern.

    As far as my own involvement in the events at Mt Buller, they were regretably much less than I would have liked. My committments with work meant that I wouldn't be able to have much involvement when the actual tournament was on, however I was more than happy to assist with the pre-tournament planning.

    Disclaimer: I was part of the organising team ... and was reimbursed for my airfare to Melbourne when George, Garvin & myself went to Mt Buller in August to have a look at the venue, talk with Peter & Roman from the Mercure, etc. When I went there for a few days at the end of the open/start at the junior I was not paid, nor were my costs reimbursed, however I did get a bed in Helihouse for the days I was there.

    Initially, I got involved in the events to try and assist (perhaps even organise it myself) the recruiting of foreign titles players to the Open. I was interested in the list that Cordover had as 'confirmed' (although I was suspicious about the truth of these confirmations), and would have liked to see the list improved upon for the actual event. However I was told by George that he had all the info from Cordover, and that he was following everything up, including telling the people on Cordover's list that he didn't have the money previously on offer. Ian Rogers had talked to some players, and was close to getting a top 10 player to the tournament for about a week in a 'guest' capacity, however the Mercure, and Roman in particular, were not at all interested in providing a little bit extra in hospitality to make the time for the guest enjoyable ... and George seemed to be happy enough to follow this line. To me, this was really disappointing, and George's continued insistence that there be no appearance money for anyone (with the exception of the Italians and Kengis, who had fees sourced from outside the tournament budget, and Darryl, who was [rightfully] considered vital for the tournament to be properly considered an Australian Open) did little to keep me enthused.

    I was then put in the position of Junior Contact, for the simple reason that George and Garvin had little or no experience with juniors, so by default, given my involvement in various junior things, I got the job.
    A number of things that were promised did not eventuate, and I was not party to the negotiations (if any) between the ACF (ie: George) and the Mercure, so can not comment on what (if anything) was put in writing.

    As for George's claim at the opening ceremony (of the juniors) that these were the first professionally run national events, I think the even speaks for itself, and the word 'professional' not only involves a payment for service, but also implies a level of proficiency and competency that was sorely lacking.

    As a general comment for future events, I think that the juniors can pretty much be run anywhere - there are large enough numbers of kids who will play in the Australian Junior no matter where it is held ... the Open, however does not have this luxury, as was demonstrated this year. Also a must for organisers is a level of detail in their planning to cover things which will (or might) eventuate ... it seems that only non-organisers such as Libby were interested in these questions.

    Apologies for my involvement (or lack thereof) in the events this year

  3. #3
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT
    Posts
    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Stead
    Outstanding post Libby ... the matters you have raised are the ones of most concern. (
    Err - thanks Kerry. I was a bit scared of what I was leaving myself open for. Reading those old threads was pretty interesting in the aftermath. I had forgotten a lot of what went on and even some of what was promised.

    I think it could have been a good event. The repeatability factor is more about whether there are real, measurable benefits well above what can be achieved elsewhere.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,068
    Quote Originally Posted by Libby
    If the juniors, attending in better than budgeted numbers, had the funds within their own tournament funding package - where did this money go instead? This isn't an accusation of fraud or misappropriation. I think we should be able to ask what additional costs etc resulted in funds not being available to fund this service for the Juniors.
    I would like to know too.


    Similarly, the advertised BBQ and party cancelled at the end of the Juniors was one of few things actually promoted in the ridiculously costly and wasteful information booklet. Jenni posted that George ran the excuse that too many people were leaving early (doesn't that just mean catering for a smaller - 50-60% - group of players?) When pressed, he didn't want to spend the money (or that is what we have been told on the BB).
    This story is 100% accurate. Actually the full story is much more vicious than that from what I have been told by both Jenni and George. I didnt even know the BBQ had been cancelled until after George had taken the unilateral decision to cancel it. He didnt discuss it with anyone that I am aware, just he cancelled without discussion.

    There was an organising committee for these events. Not George alone. Garvin, in particular, seems keen to emphasise they were powerless against George. But to some extent, most of the committee seem to intimate they would have liked some things to operate differently. Well - why didn't they? If you have strong convictions about something, share them with the other members of the committee. Be prepared to say that something is wrong. Say it collectively and don't back down if someone is unreasonable.
    Well I let you in on a nugget of information Libby. During the juniors I had my suitcase packed ready to walk out. I had had a gutful of being caught in the middle of George's crap. It was only after having a frank discussion with George and Alex that I decided to stay as it was only a few days till the end.
    If we had done what you ask Libby, then I would be almost sure that I would have resigned much earlier in protest at George's handling of events. Would having more uncertainty helped the events?
    I made a judgement call that what we had was better than complete bickering and my resignation.

    The fact that George wont even acknowledge that mistakes were made or participate in any type of debate shows what type of person he is.

    Trawling through old threads Garvin, I come up with you having done tertiary level studies in sports administration and George suggests you have training in event management. That surely had you well placed to deal with some issues or even to understand the sorts of problems that may arise. Alex & Andrew had run the events in Adelaide, very well from all reports. Could nobody assert themself and say - this is what should be done. If all members of the committee felt this way, and seemed to enjoy popular support on the BB anyway, couldn't change have happened? Instead a chain of bickering and finger pointing got underway on the BB. That must have fostered a better working relationship in Mt Buller - not.
    Your right, it didnt foster a good working relationship and I have said that if George is involved next time, i wont be and I would say mt buller 2007 would be a disaster if George is main organiser again.

    I cant speak for Andrew or Alex and I wish they would contribute more to these threads, but I guess they actually have to speak to George still in Adelaide and dont want to offend him by being honest. That is ok but doesnt help improving things cause it just leads to denialability and problems arent addressed.

    I am very well aware that my forthright posts might cost me organisational posts in the future, if that is the case, so be it.

    I would recommend that the acf council take George and the rest of us to task and I would be very willing to give an in person account of what happened and when. But I will not be the fall guy for George's mismanagement of these events and for his attitude.

    The acf council would have almost no chance of getting George to answer for his actions and I would doubt that the acf could do much anyways as it doesnt have much real power to hold ppl up for their actions.

    If the acf council did have real power, then the unmentionable one would have been hauled over the coals already.

  5. #5
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,381
    I am beginning to think that Voldemort may have been less to blame than was originally stated. The argument of him being money hungry seems silly when I hear all the talk about other's money concerns. Why was Voldemort critisized for wanting to make a profit? If unethical, then I agree he should be taken to task. But name me one coach or oraganiser that was NOT concerned with profit making really. Honestly.

    Don't yell at me guys I just want to understand.

  6. #6
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT
    Posts
    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Well I let you in on a nugget of information Libby. During the juniors I had my suitcase packed ready to walk out. I had had a gutful of being caught in the middle of George's crap. It was only after having a frank discussion with George and Alex that I decided to stay as it was only a few days till the end.
    If we had done what you ask Libby, then I would be almost sure that I would have resigned much earlier in protest at George's handling of events. Would having more uncertainty helped the events?
    I made a judgement call that what we had was better than complete bickering and my resignation.

    The fact that George wont even acknowledge that mistakes were made or participate in any type of debate shows what type of person he is.
    I think this misses my point Garvin. Was any attempt made to employ some collective bargaining? George seemed able to be dragged to certain points with enough pressure from people he considered to have "worthy" opinions. Me not being one of them. If the whole of the rest of the committee disagreed with George, and were generally receiving player feedback (here or elsewhere) that they were on the right track, why didn't you act on those feelings? Collectively. And if that saw the rest of the committee resign en masse who would have egg on their face? You guys? I think not.

    I'm not talking about dummy spits or walkouts at the event. I'm talking about the months when people blissfully toed the line (in public anyway) and when there was a chance to make a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    I would recommend that the acf council take George and the rest of us to task and I would be very willing to give an in person account of what happened and when. But I will not be the fall guy for George's mismanagement of these events and for his attitude.

    The acf council would have almost no chance of getting George to answer for his actions and I would doubt that the acf could do much anyways as it doesnt have much real power to hold ppl up for their actions.

    If the acf council did have real power, then the unmentionable one would have been hauled over the coals already.
    I'm tired of the blame game. I thought George was a bit of a (will not post my exact description) but I am more concerned about why the ACF processes allow someone to run the ACF events just how they want to, irrespective of what was put on the table with the bid. Change can be forced upon you by unavoidable events but it can be a result of failing to do the job properly. I think (and to be fair, it may still be planned) we should expect to see why the promises were not delivered.

    Like I said. People don't cut a volunteer an even break. The Mt Buller organisers were paid and all sorts of claims were made about "professionalism." Where was this exhibited above & beyond the events previously run?

  7. #7
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT
    Posts
    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by noidea
    But name me one coach or oraganiser that was NOT concerned with profit making really. Honestly.
    Try ACTJCL and then work out why you might want a JCL in Victoria or a strong junior focus in your senior association.

    ACTJCL entrants received -

    a bus organised at cost price

    assistance with accommodation

    a regular bulletin with details of Mt Buller announcements

    Coaching for $150 per child (ACTJCL subsiding each child by $100) and a ratio of 6 children per coach

    most received a subsidised team shirt, all receive full subsidy of the embroidery costs on the shirt

    a voluntary team manager

    a voluntary liaison person for matters to do with the orgnaising committee


    We made no profit on the event. It is a significant annual expenditure for ACTJCL. For our efforts however, one of our unaccompanied U18 players could get accommodation, coaching, transport to the event and entry fee for less than $500 total. That may just have contributed to us having a pretty big contingent at the event.

  8. #8
    CC International Master Mischa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,381
    Libby,
    Don't be cross with me. I am in total agreement with you on this issue. I WISH for an effective junior organisation in Victoria. this has been discussed before. Until the factions stop warring, I see no way out.
    This is not only an orgainsation problem but a coach competition. It is hard for the juniors to get support when not only are the coaches "fighting" so to speak but the clubs seem to be competing as well. I suggested once that an effective Australian junior organisation needed to be worked out.

    I admit it was refreshling to see the teams from interstate working and bonding as a team. I was very jealous, but admiring as well. What can I do in Victoria? so much petty vying for money and position. I may even withdraw my kid from a club because it seems to be run by a coach and not the organisation I thought.

    As a result, many Vic juniors are left with no real support from a club and the competition seems to be more about the coaches than the kids.
    I think I may have just stuck my neck out, but I guess it had to be said. I will probably be shot down in flames...which will underline the problem.

    My question about Voldermort still remains. Junior clubs notwithstanding...He was critisized for being money hungry. Name me an organiser or coach that didn't look to make a profit...I don't mean clubs.

    I heard of one coach who had 18 kids in his retinue and he was the only coach. Is this not about making money?
    I just thought it was unfair to accuse Voldemort of wanting to make a profit from Mt. Buller and then not suggesting the same of others.

    Libby, I am not the enemy

  9. #9
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    16,511
    Quote Originally Posted by noidea
    My question about Voldermort still remains. Junior clubs notwithstanding...He was critisized for being money hungry. Name me an organiser or coach that didn't look to make a profit...I don't mean clubs.

    I heard of one coach who had 18 kids in his retinue and he was the only coach. Is this not about making money?
    I just thought it was unfair to accuse Voldemort of wanting to make a profit from Mt. Buller and then not suggesting the same of others.
    I think where people are making the comparison is not about coaches wanting to make money but about chess organisers of ACF events.
    Generally they have been run simply to break even or make a small profit/loss.

  10. #10
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT
    Posts
    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by noidea
    Libby, Don't be cross with me.
    That's OK. I'm not cross with you

    There's a funny culture in chess about volunteering etc. People seem to want to pay for something because that will mean it is "better."

    Sometimes that is true. However, with payment should come a standard of accountability. A standard we might like to hold volunteers to (nobody should step up for a job and relish doing it poorly - even as a volunteer) but a standard we are entitled to hold paid employees or contractors to.

    I still compare it to years of unpaid softball coaching, umpiring, event organisation etc. To travelling with a state team and paying your own way, player or coach.

  11. #11
    CC Candidate Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    93
    With regards to posting on here more often, i consider myself a doing person and prefer to leave most of the debate to others. I don't have a lot of time to come on here, and have many other priorities in life. I only post on here what I deem to be neccessary. With regards to myself thinking AR cost us 15 entrants, i made one comment to garvin to not respond to his comments that were deliberately malicious, as they are not worth responding to. I have met AR once and got on with him in person. I do believe his adopted personality on here is too strong.

    With regards to trying to change the status quo of this event, quite frankly i did nothing on this event for 4 months. I made this clear upon joining that i would DO the entry forms and DO the bulletins - I prefer most of my efforts to go into achieving some tangible results. However, I do believe in responding to the publics commands, and left this to George, Garvin, Kerry etc on here. At the Adelaide events, i took on most of this myself. I did nothing in 4 months as a) I was working 80 hours a week finishing engineering b) we had severe family health problems which were prioritised. Forseeing the end of my engineering being too demanding, I took what I thought was a responsible step in making it clear I could not be involved for a period of time.

    When I did have have an opportunity to change things at the event, I suggested the following to George/others:

    a) Get all documents signed (i repeated this a number of times)
    b) Supply V-Line booking forms so that we can coordinate bus trips with playres.
    c) include all Open games in the bulletin ( I was only at Mt Buller for the Open), rather than the original suggestion
    d) Give players water at the event, which i went about achieving
    e) Provide a CD of full bulletins and photos etc to somewhat account for the problems with supply.

    A number of these I implemented personally, as i believe in backing up your words. Some were unfortunately out of my control.

    With regards to commenting on George, Garvin, I am not one to point fingers. I made most of my opinions that I thought would be constructive in another post. I believe George was very effective as a "Publicity Officer" in Adelaide. Enough said.

    With regards to the brochures being excessive, Libby, with a $20, 000 budget available that was only available for printing it seemed prudent to try and provide information in a professional, attractive manner to players.

    I thought I addressed your social events concerns somewhat when I was available, by working with and making Alex accountable for this. I thought Alex made some good inroads here, in combination with your excellent efforts on the brochure.

    Kind Regards,
    Andrew
    Last edited by adelandre; 30-01-2005 at 09:26 PM.

  12. #12
    CC Candidate Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    I think where people are making the comparison is not about coaches wanting to make money but about chess organisers of ACF events.
    Generally they have been run simply to break even or make a small profit/loss.
    Am I correct in that the then President of the ACF was also the successful tender for the running of the Mt Buller events? And continued in the role of President of the ACF? And that the Mt Buller events were a private profit/loss situation? If so, it raises the rather dumb question of where was the separation between the contractor and the contract management? If none, then that's really dumb. Quite stupid in fact.

    Or did the ACF go for about six months without a President, hence, no formal direction and no official management of the contract? No that is even dumber if that is possible.

  13. #13
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    16,511
    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Harrison
    Am I correct in that the then President of the ACF was also the successful tender for the running of the Mt Buller events?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Harrison
    And continued in the role of President of the ACF?
    He effectively stood aside and the Deputy President took over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Harrison
    And that the Mt Buller events were a private profit/loss situation?
    Any loss is born by the organiser and profit is split with the ACF 50:50.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Harrison
    If so, it raises the rather dumb question of where was the separation between the contractor and the contract management? If none, then that's really dumb. Quite stupid in fact.

    Or did the ACF go for about six months without a President, hence, no formal direction and no official management of the contract? No that is even dumber if that is possible.
    You seem to have already made up your mind.

  14. #14
    CC Candidate Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    59
    I do appreciate the clarification and I thank you for the information. On whether I "seem seem to have already made up [my] mind" there is a presumption in that quote which may or which may not be correct. I, and no-one else, will decide when I have reached a conclusion.

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,046
    Quote Originally Posted by adelandre
    With regards to myself thinking AR cost us 15 entrants, i made one comment to garvin to not respond to his comments that were deliberately malicious, as they are not worth responding to.
    You can't seriously believe that I cost you 15 entrants. That's laughable!

    AR

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. My Mt Buller report
    By Garvinator in forum Mt Buller Chess
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 04-02-2005, 09:21 PM
  2. Replies: 50
    Last Post: 28-01-2005, 08:22 PM
  3. Mt Buller Australian Minor Chess Championships
    By cincinnatus in forum Mt Buller Chess
    Replies: 202
    Last Post: 24-01-2005, 02:44 PM
  4. Tourney Booklets (Split from support from mexicans
    By Paul S in forum Mt Buller Chess
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 17-12-2004, 08:57 AM
  5. Replies: 395
    Last Post: 16-07-2004, 02:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •