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  1. #16
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Gavin, It was a pitty we didn't find time to chat at Mt Buller. No matter, I'll say something here:
    Thanks for your efforts after diving in at the deep end. Nothing can be perfect, but, personally I had the best "chess time" I have since I started playing. Mate, that means a lot! nuff sed.

  2. #17
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    if that is that attitude other organisers want to take, so be it. I am not concerned if I dont ever have anything to do with another australian tournament. The politics I saw was a disgrace and no one we remain a fourth rate sport

    I notice though that none of the other organisers there have actually disagreed with my analysis which I am sure they would have if I was completely wrong.

    I am sure that both Libby and Jenni have read my post, maybe even a couple of times and would have disagreed with me if they disagreed with what i said
    Good morning gray.

    Guess what I did yesterday mate? Went around London I did. Walked across the Tower Bridge, saw the Tower of London. Did you know that there's a little spot there called Traitor's Gate? They coulda just as easily called that Backstabber's Gate. I'm sure you'd appreciate that wouldn't you? Then I walked all the way to the theater district, up to Bloomsbury and finally made it to the British Museum. Marvellous! Simply marvellous. Loved the Elgins. And the Rosetta Stone mate - I was lost for words. Funny though, I got into a bit of trouble with a little old English lady. I asked if could hold this African stone - 1.2 million year old axe mate - and held it above the table. She got upset with me! Whoa!! But I'm quite fond of Japanese swords meself so I spent some time there. After the British I walked all the way down to Charring Cross Rd. My god, this place makes King and Brunswick look like cemeteries. And, of course, I made it to Trafalgar Sq. Today, I'm off to Harrod's to buy me mom some souvenirs. One of those green bags she said. Then might see Kensington.

    Now what about you gray? What did you achieve yesterday? Aahhh...just being your old miserable 24/7 BB self. No life, no nothing. You must have the shakes waiting for what people will say about your or your stupid posts next. You could really do with a pal garvin. Wanna be friends? I could really teach you a lot you know mate.

    Why so vindictive and awful? Mate, you're worse than some of me neighbours who hang their dirty laundry out the bloody balconies.

    Adios gray. Enjoy your day, err night. Me, I'm hanging out with some spanish chicks I met last night.

    AR

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    if that is that attitude other organisers want to take, so be it. I am not concerned if I dont ever have anything to do with another australian tournament. The politics I saw was a disgrace and no one we remain a fourth rate sport

    I notice though that none of the other organisers there have actually disagreed with my analysis which I am sure they would have if I was completely wrong.

    I am sure that both Libby and Jenni have read my post, maybe even a couple of times and would have disagreed with me if they disagreed with what i said
    Seeing that you've asked ....

    While there are some parts of the report that are accurate the entire focus of it seems to try and distance yourself from any fallout from the event. Now I was there and I must say I agree with David Richards assesment of your motives. During my stay you seemed to a) agree with everything that George did and B) traded on your association with George to try and improve your standing in the eyes of others eg introducing yourself as "Garvin Gray, Georges second-in-charge" and happily joining George in the bagging out of both Graeme Gardiner and Denis Jessop. So while most people have been pointing the finger of blame at George, I for one think that you are equally responsible for the problems that the event had, and that by publicly knifing George in the back you have in fact come off worse than him.
    Now there is an old management saying that I think applies here. "Show me a person who has never made a mistake, and I'll show you a person who has never made a decision". I noted with interest that your posts on the bulletin board concerning the failure of files being sent to Karthick or other IT related matters only seemed to contain explanations when you could find someone or something else to blame it on. When there was no external problem you seemed to stay pretty quiet.
    It is for these reasons that I suspect you may have difficulty in working with other organisers.

  4. #19
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaun
    Seeing that you've asked ....

    While there are some parts of the report that are accurate the entire focus of it seems to try and distance yourself from any fallout from the event.
    I knew my report would be seen as me trying to distance myself from the problems. But since I had been copping a bucketing for six months, i didnt care anymore.

    I have said if I dont organise another chess event, that is fine.


    Now I was there and I must say I agree with David Richards assesment of your motives. During my stay you seemed to a) agree with everything that George did [/quote]
    The key word there is seemed.



    happily joining George in the bagging out of both Graeme Gardiner and Denis Jessop.
    you are entitled to your opinion. I made it plainly clear that I didnt agree with Graeme staying at a lodge as I believe he could have stayed at the chalet for a similiar price. I still believe this. Regarding Denis, we spoke in the four way meetings with George, Roman, Denis and myself and I disagreed with him then and I still probably would.

    So while most people have been pointing the finger of blame at George, I for one think that you are equally responsible for the problems that the event had, and that by publicly knifing George in the back you have in fact come off worse than him.
    Ahh the good old, if you dont have anything to say, say nothing at all. I guess that is your style. I noticed you didnt say much at all about the running of the events while we were up there, but you had plenty to say on the bb. Pot calling the kettle black right?

    How was I responsible for the problems of the running of the event? I had no say in alot of the decisions that were made. I would only find out later of the decisions that George had made ie the bbq party.

    Now there is an old management saying that I think applies here. "Show me a person who has never made a mistake, and I'll show you a person who has never made a decision". I noted with interest that your posts on the bulletin board concerning the failure of files being sent to Karthick or other IT related matters only seemed to contain explanations when you could find someone or something else to blame it on. When there was no external problem you seemed to stay pretty quiet.
    I cant send information when I dont have it to send, i said this before. I didnt see you getting off your butt to help either.

    It is for these reasons that I suspect you may have difficulty in working with other organisers.
    Nope, just one other organiser.

  5. #20
    CC International Master Kaitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    I knew my report would be seen as me trying to distance myself from the problems. But since I had been copping a bucketing for six months, i didnt care anymore.(I edited well deleted the end of this).
    see above I deleted 5he end of that before i read all of it properly but I think gg was saying the same as me "some talk a good game"... if you dont have something to say which might make it better next time then bite your tounge .

    ..... oops maybe i should have read more, I think Mt buller would be a good place to hold chess even though I really dont know where it is and I havent been to victoria..and from what I read on here and the games I watched on the Mt Buller site, it was ok.. plus they had chess and snow that would be kewl , Anywho I'm just saying its seemed ok from what I read but maybe gg is saying it wasn't.
    Last edited by Kaitlin; 30-01-2005 at 11:30 PM.

  6. #21
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    Well, well. The response to shaun's post reminds me of a fish vainly thrashing about trying to justify its existance before fading away into oblivion.

  7. #22
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    Listen, Garvin, how old are you, man? 19, 21? Don't argue here, just listen to what people have to say and try to grow up.

    Your report is disloyal at best. Being disloyal is not a good quality.

    If you couldn't talk to George the way that you wanted to, then you should work on your assertiveness skills. It's your fault that you haven't developed those yet.

    You should also declare your possible biases before writing long posts. For example, certain individuals would be interested to know the amount of money you were paid to be involved in running Mt.Buller and (just to put it in context) how that amount compares with your average weekly earnings.
    Last edited by DoroPhil; 30-01-2005 at 10:50 PM.

  8. #23
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Ahh the good old, if you dont have anything to say, say nothing at all. I guess that is your style. I noticed you didnt say much at all about the running of the events while we were up there, but you had plenty to say on the bb. Pot calling the kettle black right?
    Good evening gray. (As I type these words I can see the majestic St Paul's Cathedral outside my window).

    Guess where I went today? Kensington Palace. Took tea too, at the Queen's "Orangery". Lovely. I was gonna pay her a visit thinking they'd be honoured with my presence. But dang, they wanted to charge me £10.50 for it. So I bolted outta there and played with her majesty's squirrels instead. How cute! I never seen squirrels in me life.

    Anyways, do you have any idea who Mr Shaun Press is? Who exactly are you to talk in such a tone and manner? That's Mr Press, former publisher of ACFo, organiser of 2 of the best annual tournaments + one big, certainly successful Aussie Open and maybe many more.

    You know, where I come from - you talk to your elders like that and you won't get away with it.

    Just a hint of advice since you're so ambitious in Aussie chess politics.

    AR

  9. #24
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    you are entitled to your opinion. I made it plainly clear that I didnt agree with Graeme staying at a lodge as I believe he could have stayed at the chalet for a similiar price. I still believe this.
    You know Garvin - this is where you just don't get it and where you still want to sell us the line that had we all stayed at the Mercure the future of Australian chess would be secure. Go back and reread my quoting of yourself, George etc. You had no right to place this sort of pressure on people or to judge them on their choices.

    Do you know what Graeme paid? $1500, 12 nights, 20 people. I make that about $75 per person for accommodation for the whole event. Can you show me how the Chalet matched that for value?

    And if you take a group of children - what facilities make your life easier? Are they multiple closed hotel rooms where you don't really know if they are there or anywhere. If you are preparing all their food, do you want one hotel room with a kitchen and get all 20 in there to eat? (Assuming you can even get a room with a kitchen!) Or is it better in a lodge, where you are the total occupancy, where the children can be easily supervised and where catering etc can be handled sensibly.

    Try to understand there was even more than cost at play when people made decisions. And show some understanding of the different issues applying to children at these events if you want to be involved with Juniors.

    You still appear to harbour ambitions for Mt Buller 2007. Maybe that will be a go-er but until people can demonstrate to me that they actually understand the range of issues that made people so irritated and negative about Mt Buller 2005 (not just George as the whole issue) you can expect not the tiniest bit of support from me.

  10. #25
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby
    You still appear to harbour ambitions for Mt Buller 2007. Maybe that will be a go-er but until people can demonstrate to me that they actually understand the range of issues that made people so irritated and negative about Mt Buller 2005 (not just George as the whole issue) you can expect not the tiniest bit of support from me.
    actually i am so pissed off with so many issues that I am questioning why I should bother with chess administration at all, so two years away is a long time.

  11. #26
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    actually i am so pissed off with so many issues that I am questioning why I should bother with chess administration at all, so two years away is a long time.
    And I can understand that. It is very discouraging to have this sort of atmosphere around events. I'm not sure what your complete background is but some experience in the murky world of office politics would stand you in good stead and have you bouncing back a little more resiliant.

    I went direct from Year 12 to the public service and found myself supervising a much older man with some difficult personality issues (who was susequently charged and convicted of shooting dead the Police Commissioner). I learnt a lot about dealing with people from that. Particularly as my supervisor spent a lot of time blaming my inexperience ahead of this gentleman's behaviour.

    But I'm asking you now to take responsibility for your statements. Go back to where you criticised David for expecting people to be in the Mercure if cheaper alternatives were close by. And last night's statement where you said Graeme was in the wrong (still) for not staying at the Mercure. I'm not trying to heap shit on you. But you have to be responsible for what you actually say and do when you sit on the committee for these events.
    Last edited by Libby; 31-01-2005 at 07:46 AM.

  12. #27
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    actually i am so pissed off with so many issues that I am questioning why I should bother with chess administration at all, so two years away is a long time.
    GG your not the first or last chess organiser to think these thoughts. I understand where your coming from and how insular and critical the chess fishbowl is. For what it is worth here is my advice.

    Chess organisation can develop a plethora of skills for the individual. It is a good teacher on a whole range of human issues. Keep on developing your self in this area.

    The key to reaping and understanding the benefits is to be reflexive. You are dealing with human beings, nothing will ever run perfectly. That said, you must always endeavour to try to run events perfectly anyway, just don't expect it to actually happen.

    Learn form the negatives and focus on the positives. If teamwork was a key issue last outing, make teamwork a key issue next time. If communication was poor before, don't enter political structures where it will happen again. Learn and reflect that is all you have to do.

    Unfortunately chessplayers often whinge without actually doing alot themselves. But the big trap here is to become reactive to their criticism. Don't it is a mistake. Keep listening to their ideas even if you don't agree with them at all. All you have to do is justify your decisions, not please everyone. That is why a strong criticism can often be your best counsel, just don't take it personally in the wrong way.

    For what it is worth. At, MCC everyone I spoke to appeared to really enjoy the event. You deserve recognition for making their lives happier.

    Cheers FG7

  13. #28
    Account Permanently Banned firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Harrison
    Well, well. The response to shaun's post reminds me of a fish vainly thrashing about trying to justify its existance before fading away into oblivion.
    Give GG a break. It is pointless to criticise him along the lines of his emotional responses. The Australian Open is a big ask for somebody relatively inexperienced in organising. I'm sure Shaun, as an experienced organiser, would clearly understand from where GG is talking.

    Thats said, it is important for GG to express all his concerns about MT Buller. Discuss those concerns, don't trample on him. Let it be recognised that organisers need this sort of discussion as a kind of therapy. It is not easy to have the whole weight of a community upon your shoulders. He has clearly had a traumatic time in a situation that was relatively out of his control.

    We all know that Australian chess needs new blood. The more organisers the better. Organisers are grown within the community. Don't cut them down before they have a realistic chance to bloom.

    Cheers FG7

  14. #29
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    So I bolted outta there and played with her majesty's squirrels instead. How cute! I never seen squirrels in me life.
    I'll never forget the first time I saw squirrels ... in Washington D.C. back a few years ... laughed myself stupid and had to stop before I wet myself! The way they run-n-jump is hilarious...
    ďAs you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.Ē -- C.S.Lewis

  15. #30
    CC Candidate Master AES's Avatar
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    Hi Garvin,

    I enjoyed reading your report. Apologies for the delay ive been busy with work. I do agree with many comments but i believe that everyone should give George a break.

    Cheers,

    Alex.
    Australian Internet Chess Championships-Adults and Juniors
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