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  1. #121
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Maxim Dlugy in 2013, on the shoe cheater:

    I watched him very carefully. When he played this move, 32.Nb7 against Saric, he took ten seconds. It was a five to ten minute thing, in my modest opinion, since the knight could take on f5 instead. But when he decided it in ten seconds I was shocked. He doesnít know when to put on the theatrics. You have to be strong enough to do that. If I had this gadget I would be killing people left and right, and nobody would know. This is the real danger, because if a 2600 player has this thing, he knows exactly how to behave, he knows exactly when to think, and he doesnít to use it more than four times during a game. Thatís plenty to destroy anyone. At the critical junction you switch it on and find out which way do I go: oh, this little nuance I didnít see, okay, fine, boom, goodbye! Thatís it. At that point you may think for a long time, although you know the move. But this guy doesnít know, heís just mechanically playing the first move of the computer. Everyone is a clown to him. He says Kiril Georgiev, put me in a bunker with him and I will destroy him. The guy has no moral compunctions, he is absolutely immoral.
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  2. #122
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Caruana weighs in:

    https://www.chessdom.com/fabiano-car...grain-of-salt/

    Caruana refers to a player who he thinks was clearly cheating but exonerated by Regan, but doesn't give hints as to who it was.
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  3. #123
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    Interesting piece in The Guardian today https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...r-in-the-world

  4. #124
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Caruana weighs in:

    https://www.chessdom.com/fabiano-car...grain-of-salt/

    Caruana refers to a player who he thinks was clearly cheating but exonerated by Regan, but doesn't give hints as to who it was.
    Yes Peter Heine Nielsen made some similar comments, that Regan does not have the combination of both the mathematical and chess strength to really be such a compelling authority. Of course, PHN comes with a certain bias.

    Nepo made a lengthy stream, he clearly has some doubts about Hans.

    Aronian seems to have walked back his earlier support of Niemann, somewhat.
    Last edited by Desmond; 23-09-2022 at 08:53 PM.
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Caruana weighs in: https://www.chessdom.com/fabiano-car...grain-of-salt/

    Caruana refers to a player who he thinks was clearly cheating but exonerated by Regan, but doesn't give hints as to who it was.
    He says that he knows of a case " ... where with absolute certainty I can say that someone was cheating in an important event. And the person was investigated and was also exonerated based on Reganís analysis." Firstly, Regan's analysis doesn't 'exonerate' anybody; it simply establishes that there is no evidence of cheating based on the moves played. Secondly, if he knows "with absolute certainty", why hasn't he passed his knowledge on to the relevant authorities? Unless, of course, he has a very good reason not to

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    He says that he knows of a case " ... where with absolute certainty I can say that someone was cheating in an important event. And the person was investigated and was also exonerated based on Reganís analysis." Firstly, Regan's analysis doesn't 'exonerate' anybody; it simply establishes that there is no evidence of cheating based on the moves played. Secondly, if he knows "with absolute certainty", why hasn't he passed his knowledge on to the relevant authorities? Unless, of course, he has a very good reason not to
    From later in the podcast (about 49:30), Caruana appears to elaborate on the case he mentioned earlier. Lightly edited transcript:

    Quote Originally Posted by Caruana in the C Squared podcast
    Let's say I had some some very serious concerns, the same thing in the past is this relatively high profile tournament. By the way, I wasn't involved in the tournament, I was only watching it from the side. Some people asked me, What do you think about these games? They just said, look at the games and just tell me what you think, without any giving me any names, they just asked me my thoughts.

    And I came back to them and I said, yeah this player and these games look really weird they really stand out to me. And so this case went up to FIDE and the player was exonerated and that was that. That was it. So from what I understand, if there is some sort of person in question, person under suspicion, then that's where it goes to and that [Regan's analysis] seems to be almost a definitive authority.

  7. #127
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Is all of this really showing the complete feckless and uselessness of the Fide processes and their so called commissions that are supposed to be dealing with these issues, such as Fair Play Commission, Ethics Commission and I am sure there are others?

    So many claims and counter claims and so far, nothing from Fide. What a useless bunch of Commissions.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator View Post
    Is all of this really showing the complete feckless and uselessness of the Fide processes and their so called commissions that are supposed to be dealing with these issues, such as Fair Play Commission, Ethics Commission and I am sure there are others?

    So many claims and counter claims and so far, nothing from Fide. What a useless bunch of Commissions.
    Emil Sutovsky has made quite a few comments on the matter. It is quite clear that FIDE is following and investigating what is happening. This includes the fact Sutovsky thinks Carlsen should receive a servere reprimand for what he has done, but not a ban.

  9. #129
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator View Post
    Is all of this really showing the complete feckless and uselessness of the Fide processes and their so called commissions that are supposed to be dealing with these issues, such as Fair Play Commission, Ethics Commission and I am sure there are others?
    The Ethics Commission can only act when someone has made a complaint (noting that that someone could be another part of FIDE including the Fair Play Commission). This is as it should be because the Ethics Commission is very powerful.

    The Fair Play Commission can initiate its own complaints regarding cheating or manifestly unfounded accusations but as there appears to be no evidence of either of those I'm not sure anything is going to happen there.

    So I would expect any action to be initiated by other parts of FIDE (an internal complaint to Ethics is possible). But these things do take time.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    Nepo made a lengthy stream, he clearly has some doubts about Hans.

    Aronian seems to have walked back his earlier support of Niemann, somewhat.
    I'm wondering if Carlsen's endgame involves emulating Greg Norman in golf, Kerry Packer in cricket, Rupert in Rugby League or Kasparov in chess itself by forming a rival world chess body. First he quits the world title so he has no ties to FIDE, then provokes a crisis which could have been handled with much less drama if it needed to happen at all. If he can encourage FIDE to sanction or threaten him then that gives him a trigger to proceed.

    That scenario would explain other leading GMs being at least ambivalent, so keeping their road clear to go with him.

  11. #131
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    Interesting that I have come to a similar conclusion about what might happen. The main difference is in taking sides. I think Fide’s handling of this situation is below any expectation and Carlsen has a moral right to do whatever he chooses to do.

  12. #132
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    FIDE Statement:
    https://www.fide.com/news/1999

    "FIDE is prepared to task its Fair Play commission with a thorough investigation of the incident, when the adequate initial proof is provided, and all parties involved disclose the information at their disposal. "

    Yes well that's all very well but what if none of those things ever happen? Also talking up the status of Carlsen as World Champion and his responsibilities as such is fine but soon he won't be World Champion anymore.

    "We propose to launch a dedicated Panel, that would include representatives of the leading chess platforms, Grandmasters, anti-cheating experts and FIDE officers, in order to fight this risk and prevent it becomes a real plague."

    Some rather murky signals here and a certain lack of clarity. Are they concerned that their current OTB cheating detections are not up to scratch? Or do they really want to fix online cheating as well because it is bringing OTB play into disrepute?
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  13. #133
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    I agree that FIDE's response has been fairly bland, but what exactly should they be doing? Carlsen hasn't made any direct accusations, and there is no real evidence that Niemann has cheated in OTB chess.

  14. #134
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Aside from the vagueness of the FIDE statement I'd add that this part is in my view just not true:

    "FIDE has led the fight against cheating for many years, and we reiterate our zero-tolerance policy toward cheating in any form. Whether it is online or “over the board”, cheating remains cheating. We are strongly committed to this fight, and we have invested in forming a group of specialists to devise sophisticated preventive measures that already apply at top FIDE events."

    In fact FIDE organs have been very reluctant to combat online cheating, largely because of the difficulty in obtaining adequate evidence from platforms that are privately owned businesses and that may not necessarily co-operate or supply evidence to the proper standard - there was a consensus at meetings I was at recently that what goes on online on private sites stays there and FIDE's jurisdiction is OTB chess and FIDE online events.

    I would say FIDE's position re online cheating has for a long time been not a zero-tolerance policy but a zero-action policy and that they've just been shocked into feeling they have to change tack on this because leading players' attitudes to OTB chess are getting contaminated by what has happened online.
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  15. #135
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I agree that FIDE's response has been fairly bland, but what exactly should they be doing? Carlsen hasn't made any direct accusations, and there is no real evidence that Niemann has cheated in OTB chess.
    There is no doubt that he cheated in online events. Why isn't he banned from online events, such as the $150,000 Julius Baer Generation Cup running currently?
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

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