Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 60
  1. #16
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The island
    Posts
    14,453
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Nonsense. You (the observer in the Trolley Problem) don't have to kill anyone; you can do nothing and let fate take its course. The five workers will die, but you didn't kill them.

    It's a thought experiment which has occupied philosophers for over 50 years, e.g.

    The trolley problem problem
    Could There Be A Solution To The Trolley Problem?
    Quite so. I've been binge watching The Good Place - great show - which has an episode on it.

    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  2. #17
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,451
    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    You or anyone could kill some one just by driving - so should we all stop driving? Because of environmental problems i don't mind motor vehicles being phased out.
    Killing someone in a motor vehicle accident is a compltely different to the type of killing we are talking about.

  3. #18
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,669
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    You mentioned the trolley problem to try and get me to change my mind about killing people.
    No I didn't

  4. #19
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,451
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    No I didn't
    Then why?

  5. #20
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,669
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    Then why?
    To raise the moral dilemma conundrum for consideration by the forum. It's not all about you

  6. #21
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,451
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    To raise the moral dilemma conundrum for consideration by the forum. It's not all about you
    I wonder why I might have thought it was directed at me?

    Perhaps because it was a reply to one of my posts.

    Of course it was directed at me, you are just playing silly games now.

  7. #22
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,451
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    It is pertinent to your eschewing of killing at war
    Here you are Ian saying you posted the trolley problem because of my opinion on killing during war.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 26-08-2021 at 10:30 PM. Reason: not allowed to accuse other posters of that

  8. #23
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,451
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Is it worth killing one German soldier to save the lives of a thousand people in a concentration camp, for example?
    No it is not worth killing one German soldier, it would be wrong to kill one German soldier.
    Last edited by Scott Colliver; 26-08-2021 at 08:53 PM.

  9. #24
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    18,396
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    No it is not worth killing one German soldier, it would be wrong to kill one German soldier.
    what if he is out killing. In fact, Scott - what is your view on self-defence? is it acceptable?
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  10. #25
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,451
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    what if he is out killing. In fact, Scott - what is your view on self-defence? is it acceptable?
    No

  11. #26
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    40,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    However I do not think that anything justifies killing no matter how many lives are wieghed against it. You could put the whole population of the earth against killing and the killing would still be wrong. The end, saving lives, just does not justify the means, killing.
    The questions I'd ask at this point are:

    * What do you mean by the word "wrong"?
    * How do you decide whether something is "wrong"?
    * Why doesn't the end, saving the lives of everyone, justify the means of killing someone who is going to kill themselves and everyone else anyway? The "means" is going to occur anyway. The choice is really between two ends, one of which is extremely bad.

    It is simply not wrong, in general, for A to kill B when B is otherwise going to kill A without provocation - or even with provocation, unless extremely severe. Anyone who thinks it is has a strange idea of what "wrong" means.

    That's not to say there is any moral obligation to kill in self-defence. It is a personal choice. Whatever decision a person might make should be respected.

    Most "moral" decisions are like that. The unwarranted assumption that of any two choices one should be considered "right" and one "wrong" just results in people agonising themselves and feeling guilty, or being condemnatory and judgemental towards others, all for no reason. Better to save such emotions for cases with easier answers.
    Moderation Requests: All requests for, comments about, or questions about moderation of any kind including thread changes must be posted in the Help and Feedback section and not on the thread in question. (Or by private message for routine changes or sensitive matters.)

    ACF Newsletter Information - All Australian players and administrators should subscribe and check each issue for relevant notices

    My psephology/politics site (token chess references only) : http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/ Politics twitter feed https://twitter.com/kevinbonham

  12. #27
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    18,396
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    No
    Then person attacked will get killed - will be a deadbody in the end of the day anyway, possibly more dead bodies.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  13. #28
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    18,396
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    No
    Scott, and what if you are walking on the street and you see a male assaulting a female or a child? Is it acceptable to interfere? In my view, this is not only acceptable but essential!
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  14. #29
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,451
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    The questions I'd ask at this point are:

    * What do you mean by the word "wrong"?
    * How do you decide whether something is "wrong"?
    * Why doesn't the end, saving the lives of everyone, justify the means of killing someone who is going to kill themselves and everyone else anyway? The "means" is going to occur anyway. The choice is really between two ends, one of which is extremely bad.

    It is simply not wrong, in general, for A to kill B when B is otherwise going to kill A without provocation - or even with provocation, unless extremely severe. Anyone who thinks it is has a strange idea of what "wrong" means.

    That's not to say there is any moral obligation to kill in self-defence. It is a personal choice. Whatever decision a person might make should be respected.

    Most "moral" decisions are like that. The unwarranted assumption that of any two choices one should be considered "right" and one "wrong" just results in people agonising themselves and feeling guilty, or being condemnatory and judgemental towards others, all for no reason. Better to save such emotions for cases with easier answers.
    Kevin, thank you for your response. I will consider my answers to your questions and answer them at some time other than when I really should be in bed sleeping

  15. #30
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,451
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Scott, and what if you are walking on the street and you see a male assaulting a female or a child? Is it acceptable to interfere? In my view, this is not only acceptable but essential!
    Of course one should do something.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. I have a problem
    By Davidflude in forum The 1337 Lounge
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 31-01-2010, 06:24 AM
  2. Problem's with the solutions in problem books
    By Bereaved in forum Puzzles and Problems
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 13-09-2008, 10:22 AM
  3. problem
    By hitman84 in forum Puzzles and Problems
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-12-2005, 02:14 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •