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  1. #16
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Nepo offers his opinion at 17:20, that Aronian should not be allowed to play for the national team after transferring.

    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  2. #17
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    It is not like he doesn't have a vested interest in the USA not getting stronger.

    Putting that aside it would change what happens in chess massively.

  3. #18
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    The Australians women's team now has 2 ''imported'' WGMs and an imported IM (all 3 arrived here well beyond their junior age)
    In truth, it hardly seems to matter now that they and their families have well and truly integrated into their country of choice. They are no less Australian.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    In truth, it hardly seems to matter now that they and their families have well and truly integrated into their country of choice. They are no less Australian.
    Absolutely. Likewise, no reason why Aronian and So are any less American than their teammates .
    Also, likewise, as we would not complain that they take team spots away from the ''Young Australians'' - I do not see why it should be a problem in the USA.
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  5. #20
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    It is not like he doesn't have a vested interest in the USA not getting stronger.
    Perhaps so, but Armenia got weakened at the same time. Armenia won 3 of the last 7 olympiads, USA just 1.

    Putting that aside it would change what happens in chess massively.
    OK, but changed for the better or worse?
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    Perhaps so, but Armenia got weakened at the same time. Armenia won 3 of the last 7 olympiads, USA just 1.

    OK, but changed for the better or worse?
    Armenia was already a lot weaker than when they won the Olympiads. The USA was stronger even before Aronian switches.

    At the top level it might be a bit of an improvement, but the top level is small and most chess nations are represented by amateurs. I think it would be worse overall.

  7. #22
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    At the top level it might be a bit of an improvement, but the top level is small and most chess nations are represented by amateurs. I think it would be worse overall.
    I mean you could just have a rule that you can't change to represent a second country if you've already represented your first country as an adult. Many sports have this. You could draw the line somewhere to have some minor allowances for amateur players, but wherever you draw that line Aronian will be on the other side of it having lead Armenia to 3 Olympiad wins.
    Last edited by Desmond; 07-03-2021 at 12:58 PM.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  8. #23
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Even their first team will never be as dominant as the Soviets back then! The soviets lost only a single ollympiad in 40 years (to Hungary in 1978), USA may be having trouble winning consistently time after time over China, Russia and others.
    Was doing some statistics research the other day re: USSR Olympic teams from 1952 to 1990.
    Of the 33 players they used 18 were not Russian (vast majority of the "foreigners" being Ukrainian).
    Also three of the USSR world champions weren't Russian!
    Considering that those (Baltic) countries were forcibly occupied and incorporated in Czarist Russia first and USSR later with only short periods of independence we can talk of forced transfers of their GMs.
    Well, transfers of that kind were a "normal" chess phenomenon with the most striking characteristic that of WC Alexander Alekhine.
    Nowadays, FIDE's transfer lists contain quite a few of such transfer cases.
    So no reason to get excited!
    Last edited by ER; 07-03-2021 at 01:40 PM.
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  9. #24
    CC International Master ElevatorEscapee's Avatar
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    Walter Browne represented Australia at the 1970 & 1972 chess Olympiads, before switching to represent the US.

    (According to that font of all wisdom, Wikileakspedia, Walter was born in Sydney of an Aussie mum and a US dad - the family moved to the US when he was three, and he held dual Aussie/US citizenship until he was 21).

    There is also an interesting list of chess players who changed national federations - Oceanian nations are listed at the bottom:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sfers_in_chess
    "On my chess set, all the pawns are Hamburglers" ~ Homer Simpson.

  10. #25
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Didn't notice until recently that the United States of Anywhere have also picked up Leinier Dominguez from Cuba (transferred in 2018) so in theory they could field a team consisting entirely of players who were either transferred or born overseas.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    I mean you could just have a rule that you can't change to represent a second country if you've already represented your first country as an adult. Many sports have this. You could draw the line somewhere to have some minor allowances for amateur players, but wherever you draw that line Aronian will be on the other side of it having lead Armenia to 3 Olympiad wins.
    I think that's too strict, as players may change countries 'involuntarily' - Victor Korchnoi would be an obvious example. But a delay in representing another country of (for example) four years seems reasonable.

  12. #27
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    The current FIDE requirements allow a player to transfer to any country of which they have citizenship or residency, with the consent of that country's chess governing body. Residency is treated informally and can mean living in the other country or having a formal residency status. Also, it doesn't have to be permanent residency.

    However, when a strong player moves to another country and transfers more or less immediately, their old Federation is entitled to compensation from the new one if the player wants to start representing the new Federation right away. So if Aronian has only just started living in the USA, and the USA wants him able to represent them before he has two years as a resident, then the USA will have to pay Armenia 50,000 euro, unless Armenia waives or reduces that amount.

    Provided a new Federation wants to pay the compensation fee, there is nothing to stop a player moving from one country to another and transferring and playing for their new country immediately. Though the old federation can stall the application for 90 days simply by not answering FIDE's emails about the transfer.
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  13. #28
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I think that's too strict, as players may change countries 'involuntarily' - Victor Korchnoi would be an obvious example. But a delay in representing another country of (for example) four years seems reasonable.
    You might be right, but then again such cases could be dealt with as an exception.

    The 4 years idea has some merit. The Intl Olympic Games Committee has a rule of 3 years, though that can be waived in exceptional circumstances.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos View Post
    Aronian switching Federation to USA. https://saintlouischessclub.org/blog...-represent-usa
    Transfers are commonplace. Some snippets from the newsletter of the Chess Federation of the Kyrgyz Republic [robotically translated]:

    https://chesskg.org/2021/03/10/transfery-xxi-veka/

    Transfers of the XXI century

    At the junction of winter and spring, the chess world was shocked by the news: one of the strongest players of our time, Levon Aronian, changes his federation and starts playing for the USA instead of Armenia. There were already competitors of the dream-team named after billionaire Rex Sinquefield rubbing their hands - one of the pillars of the Stars and Stripes team, Hikaru Nakamura, announced that it was more comfortable and more profitable for him to switch to playing on the Internet, and then again a third great was added to Fabiano Caruana and Wesley So.

    However, Moscow-2022 is not coming soon, and I am sure that this transition will not be the last. Is it possible that such a rising superstar as Alireza Firugia , who is still playing under the banner of the International Chess Federation, will remain on the sidelines of the Olympics ? In the meantime, experts are making various forecasts, let's recall the most famous transitions of the current century. Sorry in advance: I had to do a titanic search work, and if someone was offended, forgotten - do not judge strictly.

    ..2021. In addition to the news about Levon Aronian, at the beginning of the year, it was announced that Arkady Naiditsch terminated the agreement with the Azerbaijani federation and should stop representing it in official competitions, but the grandmaster's flag has not changed yet.

    ..2020. Surprisingly, even in the year of the coronavirus invasion, significant transfer events took place: Ivan Cheparinov returned to the Bulgarian Chess Federation, Lazaro Bruson followed Dominguez from Cuba to the USA, England was represented by a journalist, one of the first persons of the Russian-speaking chess.com, Russian woman Maria Emelyanova.

    ..2019. At that time, literally the entire chess part of the country was watching the legal battle between lawyers Alexander Dobrovinsky and Alexander Martynov, and soon Bibisara Assaubayeva returned to Kazakhstan. There, the young chess player was offered good conditions, while Profchessklab, on the contrary, disintegrated. After numerous litigations with Yazici, appeals to the world community, the ACP and FIDE, Suat Atalik left Turkey for Serbia. Popular journalist, grandmaster Anna Burtasova emigrated to Canada from Russia, ex-world champion Susan Polgar again began to represent Hungary.

    ..2018. Cuban Leinier Dominguez turned out to be another iconic figure in the American national team, and Aleksey Shirov, due to disagreements with the leadership of the Latvian chess, returned under the flag of the Spanish crown.

    ..2017. Anastasia Sorokina returned to Belarus from Australia - first-class tournaments began to be held in Minsk, well-known specialists started working from the national team. But, alas, the sad events of 2020 dealt a terrible blow to all the aspirations of the famous judge and organizer.

    ..2015. Evgeny Bareev left Russia for Canada, but still does not break ties with his homeland and is now an expert of the leading Russian-language channel Levitov Chess on Youtube. Fabiano Caruana is back in the US from Italy - the great three of the Caruana-Nakamura-So attack come together.

    ..2012. The most exotic transfer from Alex Averbukh: USA - Japan! David Alberto started representing Luxembourg instead of Italy. The future blindfold record holder Timur Gareev went to the USA from Uzbekistan .

    ..2009. Ivan Sokolov returned to his glorious Bosnian homeland from the Netherlands, and in general, 2009 can be safely dubbed the year of youth: Sergey Karjakin, at the invitation of Alexander Bach, moves from Ukraine to Russia, Anish Giri , on the contrary, from a Russian becomes a Dutchman, and Alexander Ipatov instead of Ukraine begins to represent Spain

    ..2007. And this year you can find a lot of nice transfers: Igor Efimov followed the route of the USSR - Georgia - Italy and put a spectacular point in Monaco! Mikhail Khodarkovsky moved to the United States from Ukraine (not to be confused with the rebellious oligarch), now a man from the inner circle of Garry Kasparov . One of the Chinese nationals, Li Zofan, followed Zhu Chen's example and changed its Chinese homeland to Singapore (but returned 10 years later). One of the record holders of the open tournaments, the Ukrainian Vadim Malakhatko, became the Belgian . Igor Rausis from Bangladesh moved to the Czech Republic, starting to play for one of the strongest clubs in the country. Andrey Shekachev, the famous "Grandmaster Dre" from the story "Eastern Station" by Murtas Kazhgaleev, changed the Russian Federation to the French.

    ..2003 was marked by the fact that due to the conflict at home, Levon Aronian began to represent Germany, and Igor Rausis received the Bangladeshi flag instead of the Latvian flag - the main person of one of the most high-profile cases of computer prompts worked for many years as a coach in this country. Maxim Sorokin returned from Argentina to Russia - no one could have imagined what tragedy awaited the talented grandmaster and coach ... The future head of the Chess Federation of Belarus Anastasia Sorokina began her voyage to Australia.

    ..2004 Levon Aronian flared up, but a year later came back to play for Armenia; the same thing happened with Kiril Georgiev in relations with the Bulgarian federation. Anna Muzychuk, one of the most promising figures in Ukrainian chess, has accepted the generous offer of the Slovenian Chess Federation. Since 2004 Levon Aronian played under the Armenian flag again.

    ..2003 was marked by the fact that due to the conflict at home, Levon Aronian began to represent Germany, and Igor Rausis received the Bangladeshi flag instead of the Latvian flag - the main person of one of the most high-profile cases of computer prompts worked for many years as a coach in this country. Maxim Sorokin returned from Argentina to Russia - no one could have imagined what tragedy awaited the talented grandmaster and coach ... The future head of the Chess Federation of Belarus Anastasia Sorokina began her voyage to Australia..
    Last edited by Frank; 16-03-2021 at 06:51 PM.

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