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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Corker View Post
    When all is said and done, I don't really care which way it goes. I have no skin in the game. But when International Masters who drive taxis for a living ask me why there is no money in chess, I tell them,
    "There is heaps of money in chess - we just spend most of it on airfares, taxis, accomodation etc. Not to mention how much Australian chess pays out each year in rating prizes."
    Keep up the good work on the Gold Coast Shaun. You are one of Worongary's many success stories.
    Thanks Coach, I do however believe there is plenty of money in chess you just have to know where to look! There are more success stories and chess companies/coaches making a good living than ever!

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Corker View Post
    Thanks for your valued imput Shaun. I will go with all your figures as it is a long time since i attended one of these events.
    My maths was also a fraction more out as i forgot that each state probably send 4 teams each year, not just one. So if we go with $450 less than your estimate,
    we get 4 x $6,000 per state x 5 states = $120,000 per year.

    Now I know why i spent so much time over the competition weekend working on analysis of opponents games etc. - my clients were out socializing!
    I'm still not convinced that it is more of a social occasion than a chance to put yourself in the record books forever.

    I still remember the only Australian Schools Teams Championships that i attended as a coach where my students did not come first. The weeks leading up to the event were littered with birthday parties that they "simply - just had to go to", - so i had to work around their schedule. I tried telling them that no one would remember what parties they went to in 20 years time but all would remember if they won an Australian title. Needless to say it was a very quiet trip home.

    I also remember being lectured to by a concerned mum regarding my emphasis on,
    "if you are going to one of these things, you may as well put everything into trying to win it".
    She pointed out that i was perhaps being a bit too serious about my task. I must point out that the lecture occurred at the airport - on the way home - after her son's team had just won their section. Could never work out why i didn't get the lecture before the event!

    When all is said and done, I don't really care which way it goes. I have no skin in the game. But when International Masters who drive taxis for a living ask me why there is no money in chess, I tell them,
    "There is heaps of money in chess - we just spend most of it on airfares, taxis, accomodation etc. Not to mention how much Australian chess pays out each year in rating prizes."
    Keep up the good work on the Gold Coast Shaun. You are one of Worongary's many success stories.
    Some emotional points here, I feel you.
    Yes, when players play - they must complete to win/to do their best but what many chess coaching business do is - simply provide entertainment rather than aim at running serious classes (most chess in schools programs are build around entertainment with coaches often hardly knowing how the pieces move leave alone understanding of how to teach chess strategy). Kids (and parents) need to understand the importance of taking chess seriously if they are competing at a national level.
    On another note, I do not see how spending less money on airfares and accommodation will have direct impact on the income of the taxi-driving IM. Even GMs can not earn decently from chess playing. However, if he is an in-demand tutor - who is not only an IM but also someone with good teaching skills - he should be able to support himself through the chess tutoring. In Melbourne - several people do. Obviously, will be earning far less than in professional jobs - but can probably earn close to what he earns taxi driving.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Some emotional points here, I feel you.
    Yes, when players play - they must complete to win/to do their best but what many chess coaching business do is - simply provide entertainment rather than aim at running serious classes (most chess in schools programs are build around entertainment with coaches often hardly knowing how the pieces move leave alone understanding of how to teach chess strategy). Kids (and parents) need to understand the importance of taking chess seriously if they are competing at a national level.
    On another note, I do not see how spending less money on airfares and accommodation will have direct impact on the income of the taxi-driving IM. Even GMs can not earn decently from chess playing. However, if he is an in-demand tutor - who is not only an IM but also someone with good teaching skills - he should be able to support himself through the chess tutoring. In Melbourne - several people do. Obviously, will be earning far less than in professional jobs - but can probably earn close to what he earns taxi driving.
    Kinda like 1300 rated coaches teaching national champion teams ��

    I am rated 1395acf and in 2016 rated 919acf I coaches a school to win 3/4 state championships as well as first place Australian primary open team. Im not sure of any other occasion where a school has been represented in 3/4 national competitions via winning their state titles (except the same school the following year).

    The balance of fun and serious chess is important, kids must enjoy the game and their experience but also know when they need to work hard and be serious. I don't necessarily always get this right but I like many others try and find a balance of both.

    When it comes to income, in Queensland youd be quite surprised the income that can be made. I've heard of quite a few titled players charging $100 or more per hour for coaching and being in very high demand at that rate....
    Last edited by Shaun94; 03-12-2020 at 06:46 PM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun94 View Post
    Kinda like 1300 rated coaches teaching national champion teams ��

    I am rated 1395acf and in 2016 rated 919acf I coaches a school to win 3/4 state championships as well as first place Australian primary open team. Im not sure of any other occasion where a school has been represented in 3/4 national competitions via winning their state titles (except the same school the following year).

    The balance of fun and serious chess is important, kids must enjoy the game and their experience but also know when they need to work hard and be serious. I don't necessarily always get this right but I like many others try and find a balance of both.

    When it comes to income, in Queensland youd be quite surprised the income that can be made. I've heard of quite a few titled players charging $100 or more per hour for coaching and being in very high demand at that rate....
    Indeed. I do coaching as a hobby/for coffee money so have to turn down majority of the chess coaching offers and refer them to other coaches (luckily in Victoria, we too have many quality chess trainers). Therefore, strong players should be able to earn decently irrespective of how the interschool events are held so if IMs drive taxies, it could be due to them either loving to do the driving or not being able to convert their chess knowledge into an attractive product (can think of some IMs who are very poor communicators/do not know how to teach). Sometimes, when it comes to teach low level students, 1800 rated coaches (who are good coaches) can do a far better job than many IMs do!
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  5. #20
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    Hi ER, Thanks for your comments. I should point out that last time i was involved in qld chess admin., Capa was still trying to get a rematch with Alekhine! The volunteer people in the CAQ Inc. continue to do a great job and qld continues to produce attractive events. If you go to a chess event for the chess, and the holiday, you don't want to stay home and stare at a computer screen. I understand that. You probably want to take a week off each side of the tournament and relax. You want the sand beneath your toes. Unless you are playing in the Birdsville Open, where you probably should stay inside.

    However for a weekend national school teams event where you fly in friday night, hit the sack. get up sat. morning, play chess all day, go to a barbecue sat night. get up sunday morning, pack your bags, go to the venue, play chess all day and then fly home, i don't see time for the holiday aspect. i don't see time for the networking aspect, i don't see time for the social aspect. To sum up, all i see is an $80,000 barbecue! Because that is roughly the difference in cost to running it over the net and flying there.
    These must be the most expensive burnt snags in the world!

  6. #21
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Corker View Post
    I still remember the only Australian Schools Teams Championships that i attended as a coach where my students did not come first. The weeks leading up to the event were littered with birthday parties that they "simply - just had to go to", - so i had to work around their schedule. I tried telling them that no one would remember what parties they went to in 20 years time but all would remember if they won an Australian title.
    What are you going to remember more in 20 years - flying halfway across the country with your classmates to play in an Australian championship event, or playing someone on the other side of a computer screen just like any other day?
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  7. #22
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Corker View Post

    Hi ER, Thanks for your comments.
    Hi there Kerry!

    It's a pleasure to acknowledge the input of a fairly strong player who's been there done that in chess competition, administration and coaching and who talks from personal experience rather than just imagine things!

    I should point out that last time i was involved in qld chess admin., Capa was still trying to get a rematch with Alekhine!
    Slightly hyperbolic but I get the message!


    The volunteer people in the CAQ Inc. continue to do a great job and qld continues to produce attractive events.
    Agreed and appreciated!

    If you go to a chess event for the chess, and the holiday, you don't want to stay home and stare at a computer screen.
    Agreed!

    I understand that. You probably want to take a week off each side of the tournament and relax. You want the sand beneath your toes.
    During the last decade that I have ventured to QLD for chess (good excuse for my circumstances - always works ) seven times mind you much more in Sydney I have hardly stayed around less than a month!

    Unless you are playing in the Birdsville Open, where you probably should stay inside.
    Sounds interesting, more details please!

    However for a weekend national school teams event where you fly in friday night, hit the sack. get up sat. morning, play chess all day, go to a barbecue sat night. get up sunday morning, pack your bags, go to the venue, play chess all day and then fly home, i don't see time for the holiday aspect. i don't see time for the networking aspect, i don't see time for the social aspect.
    Don't get me wrong,
    I understand and mainly agree with your microeconomics approach.
    Money matters and I am quite aware of its various forms of functionality.
    I also understand that chess apart from being a great sport in certain levels of participation can also be a very expensive hobby!
    Luckily, its multiple forms of flexibility give its lovers the opportunity to participate in an enjoyable way be it playing at home
    with family, at the park or at the local library for free, online tournament or vs individual opponents also for free, club visits or membership for relatively low entry fee or for an affordable membership fee, partake in local / interstate / international tournaments.
    As someone who ticks yes to all of the above I understand that the penultimate and last options aren't applicable for those of low income, unemployed etc.
    As far as socialisation and sharing is concerned I can assure you that it is alive and well in all major w/enders (apart from national school teams events of which I have no knowledge whatsoever
    and I have no reason to disagree with you).
    Very noticeable cases include shared accommodation as in Airbnb, using cooking facilities to prepare meals and car pooling, which can be major factors in reducing expenses.
    After all for a family that can spend $100 for an hour's chess lesson, I don't think that the cost factor could be a significant burden!

    To sum up, all i see is an $80,000 barbecue! Because that is roughly the difference in cost to running it over the net and flying there.
    These must be the most expensive burnt snags in the world!
    Sarcastic but not exactly far-fetched if you take your imaginary budget to its extreme dimensions!

    Cheers, I am coming to QLD soon and we might have the chance for a chat there over a drink! (soft drink - preferably lemon squash if at a pub) or orange juice for me, I can't stand alcohol!

    Best!

    ER
    Last edited by ER; 05-12-2020 at 11:38 AM.
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  8. #23
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    I'm not taking a position either way. But presumably one advantage of an online event (which I don't think has been mentioned) is that all the games are available live?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I'm not taking a position either way. But presumably one advantage of an online event (which I don't think has been mentioned) is that all the games are available live?
    Availability of games certainly is a plus. We were planning to have 20 dgt boards for this year's ASTC which would be more than ever before for this tournament however is still not near every game.

  10. #25
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Impressive photos from the QLD hub based at Churchie posted on FB. Looks like an impeccably organised event!
    When I have time I will post on relevant thread!
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  11. #26
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