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  1. #286
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    But we certainly need to define ''not safe'' - or else economy will be driven to the grave.
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  2. #287
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Government, not capitalism, screwed up responding to WuFlu

    It's Wildly Wrong to Blame Capitalism for Government's Botched Response to COVID-19
    The litany of government fiascos speaks for itself.
    Lawrence Reed, FEE, 12 May 2020

    Try to follow the logic: An unexpected virus appears half a world away. A one-party socialist dictatorship lies about it, jails whistleblowing doctors and silences critics—evil on a grand scale that leads directly to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people around the world. That would normally prompt a hint of doubt about socialist dictatorships, but not in this instance. The author races straight to the conclusion that capitalism can’t handle it and what we need here is uncritical acceptance of gargantuan government (like they have where the virus came from).

    Of course, you can’t follow the logic because there isn’t any. Not a shred. It’s the old, familiar knee-jerk reaction that defenders of freedom and markets deal with every day. Capitalism, even when adulterated with endless restrictions, taxes, political cronyism and the like, is a hair-trigger away from mindless, sweeping condemnation. The benevolent state, in spite of its monotonous and often deadly failures, gets a pass.

    People who think this way judge capitalism against a fictional, utopian ideal and find it wanting; they judge the state by nothing more than the good intentions it expresses. They turn a blind eye when its intentions aren’t really good or when they produce disastrous results. The letter writer couldn’t wait until the pandemic’s end to render an informed assessment; he judged Big Government a home run before it even got to first base. Whatever the state does to handle it must be right! That’s a magical claim that would embarrass even an unlicensed witch doctor.

    Meantime, while politicians deal with the pandemic by shutting everything down and ballooning the national debt, capitalists are revving up production of the very medical devices and equipment needed to solve the problem.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  3. #288
    Premium Member ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    But we certainly need to define ''not safe'' - or else economy will be driven to the grave.
    I trust they are aware of that before it actually happens!

    https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/h...nce%20packages
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    In defense of Capitalism.
    Money is the cause of all evil!
    Wrong
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  4. #289
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    But we certainly need to define ''not safe'' - or else economy will be driven to the grave.
    So how would you define 'not safe'?

  5. #290
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    I trust they are aware of that before it actually happens!

    https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/h...nce%20packages
    I thought the assistance packages were a little too generous but now with no new cases in NSW yesterday then at least they have worked and can be trimmed. But as with previous financial crisis they must act quickly with a broad brush to be effective. Small mistakes were made with both packages and this govt should have learnt off Rudd's mistakes but did not. With Byron no longer a hot zone I am hearted that I did my bit in dobbing massive violations of shutdown - that is hundreds of party goers congregating. I am usually not a dobber at all.

    My income greatly diminished due to tenants running off after losing jobs and I don't fit into any categories of govt support and as well I am supporting a few freeloader friends. One has a holiday resort overseas I will catch up on them.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  6. #291
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    https://7news.com.au/business/financ...2FdRmpRfi4PGRs

    May be not a bad call:
    A review of the $130 billion JobKeeper scheme in June has raised questions as to whether the federal government intends to keep it running for the entire six months, at a time when some believe it will need to be extended.

    Researchers from the Australian National University and the University of NSW Sydney believe they have a solution that will enable the scheme to be phased out as the economy reopens and the recovery takes shape.

    They recommend introducing what they describe as a “government-controlled revenue-contingent loan scheme” to ease the transition from JobKeeper.
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  7. #292
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    I think it all could have been an interest free loan paid off over a couple years of slightly higher individual taxes. But the government can just raise taxes for a few years to cover it and those progressively taxed pay more.
    The method the Government used is a vote winner that's why that path.

    But as physics tells us there is no such thing as a free lunch.
    Last edited by antichrist; 14-05-2020 at 09:13 AM.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  8. #293
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    This article compares the economic cost of the shutdown to the cost of not having a shutdown, and finds that the shutdown was definitely the better option. And they also make a very important point:

    Comparing this cost from shutting down – about $180bn – to the benefit of $1,103bn – makes the case for shutdown clear.

    But this calculation grossly overestimates the costs of the shutdown. The recession is a consequence of both the shutdown and the pandemic. We need to attribute costs to each.

    Most of the economic costs of the recession are likely to be due to the pandemic itself rather than the shutdown.

  9. #294
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  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    No great loss, the stuff tastes disgusting.

  11. #296
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    This article compares the economic cost of the shutdown to the cost of not having a shutdown, and finds that the shutdown was definitely the better option. And they also make a very important point:

    Comparing this cost from shutting down – about $180bn – to the benefit of $1,103bn – makes the case for shutdown clear.

    But this calculation grossly overestimates the costs of the shutdown. The recession is a consequence of both the shutdown and the pandemic. We need to attribute costs to each.

    Most of the economic costs of the recession are likely to be due to the pandemic itself rather than the shutdown.
    Economists back social distancing 34-9 in new Economic Society-Conversation survey

    Australian economists overwhelmingly back social distancing measures that slow the spread of coronavirus over the alternative of easing restrictions and allowing the spread of the disease to pick up ...

    The economists chosen to take part are Australia’s leaders in fields including microeconomics, macroeconomics, economic modelling and public policy. Among them are former and current government advisers and a former and current member of the Reserve Bank board.

    Their responses are given weight by statements explaining their views published in full on The Conversation website and by a requirement that they rank the confidence they have in their responses on a scale of 1 to 10. ...

  12. #297
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Economists back social distancing 34-9 in new Economic Society-Conversation survey

    Australian economists overwhelmingly back social distancing measures that slow the spread of coronavirus over the alternative of easing restrictions and allowing the spread of the disease to pick up ...

    The economists chosen to take part are Australia’s leaders in fields including microeconomics, macroeconomics, economic modelling and public policy. Among them are former and current government advisers and a former and current member of the Reserve Bank board.

    Their responses are given weight by statements explaining their views published in full on The Conversation website and by a requirement that they rank the confidence they have in their responses on a scale of 1 to 10. ...
    "Social distancing" and "easing restrictions" are not mutually exclusive "alternatives". Restrictions can be eased and social distancing can continue. This is what's happening!
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  13. #298
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    The end of the university boom


    .... Higher education is one of the sectors hardest hit by the virus crisis, because the international students upon whom they have come to depend are no longer able to travel.

    Yet the federal government has made it clear there are firm limits to its preparedness to help.

    The government has guaranteed the money universities were expecting to be paid for teaching domestic students, even if those enrolments decline. But there will be no bailout. ...

    It is not clear what happens to Australia’s universities from here, but this pandemic may well mark the start of the unwinding of one of the nation’s success stories – the growth of international university education. ...

  14. #299
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    The end of the university boom


    .... Higher education is one of the sectors hardest hit by the virus crisis, because the international students upon whom they have come to depend are no longer able to travel.

    Yet the federal government has made it clear there are firm limits to its preparedness to help.

    The government has guaranteed the money universities were expecting to be paid for teaching domestic students, even if those enrolments decline. But there will be no bailout. ...

    It is not clear what happens to Australia’s universities from here, but this pandemic may well mark the start of the unwinding of one of the nation’s success stories – the growth of international university education. ...
    I was never really in favour of it anyway charging 3rd world students top dollar for education. There was no altruism behind it like the old Columbo Plan. I prefer giving scholarships to their brightest to then return home and improve their countries for the benefit of all. In all facets such as political systems, legal institutions and labour organisations etc.. So eventually the world would incrementally improve with every generation. Now foreign students are only into it for their own careers, money and maybe migration with no concern for their homeland. The most intelligent are a special breed that are necessary for their countries' advancement. Instead they just provide over competition for Australian professional jobs etc
    .
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    The end of the university boom


    .... Higher education is one of the sectors hardest hit by the virus crisis, because the international students upon whom they have come to depend are no longer able to travel.

    Yet the federal government has made it clear there are firm limits to its preparedness to help.

    The government has guaranteed the money universities were expecting to be paid for teaching domestic students, even if those enrolments decline. But there will be no bailout. ...

    It is not clear what happens to Australia’s universities from here, but this pandemic may well mark the start of the unwinding of one of the nation’s success stories – the growth of international university education. ...
    And some Universities/campuses have very few domestic students. For instance Melbourne campus of CSU is servicing mostly international students. City Campus of Federation Universities, Victorian campus of CQU - likewise.

    In other states - there is a similar picture.
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