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  1. #1
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    Right and Wrong without a god

    How do you decide what is right or wrong without the apparent authority of a god to make the decision?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by I don't know View Post
    How do you decide what is right or wrong without the apparent authority of a god to make the decision?
    That is a question that philosophers and theologians have argued about for millennia, so I'm not sure that Chess Chat is the best place to find answers. It would be better to read their opinions. Although perhaps you should start with an introductory work.

    I would just point out, however, that believing in a god doesn't solve the problem of determining right and wrong. Believers in the Christian God, for example, presumably all believe in the same god. Yet they have expressed many contradictory views on what that god supposedly wants us to do.

  3. #3
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    That is a question that philosophers and theologians have argued about for millennia, so I'm not sure that Chess Chat is the best place to find answers. It would be better to read their opinions. Although perhaps you should start with an introductory work.

    I would just point out, however, that believing in a god doesn't solve the problem of determining right and wrong. Believers in the Christian God, for example, presumably all believe in the same god. Yet they have expressed many contradictory views on what that god supposedly wants us to do.
    True, and one has to wonder just whose moral teachings Christians are following, given that they idol worship a genocidal and infanticidal Yahweh.

    I think Goths are kind of funny, but this one may be onto something. Let me know if you agree.



    Regards
    DL

  4. #4
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I don't know View Post
    How do you decide what is right or wrong without the apparent authority of a god to make the decision?
    Depending on how you read the bible, it seems that Jesus wanted to get rid of the written letter of the law and wanted us to just go with our feelings and to let love guide us.

    He was both right and wrong on this IMO.

    Right in the sense that we should follow our feelings as expressed by our instincts, but wrong because at some point in time, our instincts to default to cooperate with everyone, changes in those that want to compete and try to show themselves a the fittest.

    Most choose not to compete and that is why all are called but few hear it.

    Here is the instincts from our selfish gene we follow.



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    DL

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I don't know View Post
    How do you decide what is right or wrong without the apparent authority of a god to make the decision?
    I leave it to philosoper Rust Cohle:
    "If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a..." [watch for yourself]

    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  6. #6
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    Rust Cohle makes plenty of sense.

  7. #7
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    I leave it to philosoper Rust Cohle:
    "If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a..." [watch for yourself]
    A good find.

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    DL

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Bishop View Post
    A good find.

    Regards
    DL
    It's from True Detective, season 1. I'd highly recommend it.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    It's from True Detective, season 1. I'd highly recommend it.
    I haven't seen it, unfortunately, although it's one of the many shows that I intend to watch someday.

    For a general discussion of moral philosophy, The Good Place is excellent. In one of the seasons, the main characters are told that they will go to the Bad Place (ie, hell) when they die, whatever they do. So they decide that they will continue to behave morally, even though there is no possibility of reward in the afterlife.

  10. #10
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    It's from True Detective, season 1. I'd highly recommend it.
    I will check it out for other decent views.

    I don't know dis not comment onn post 4 in terms of us having instincts.

    I either shot his view down or he did not believe the research that shows we have no need of a god to know good and evil.

    Care to comment on the baby research?

    I don't know, like most religious people, might be a moral coward who fears saying anything negative against the vile gods on our menu.

    Regards
    DL

  11. #11
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    I am a recently ex-religious person.

    Gods have to exist to be vile

  12. #12
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I don't know View Post
    I am a recently ex-religious person.

    Gods have to exist to be vile
    Smile.

    If you are ex, you are ex for a reason, and I hope it was because you recognized that a genocidal god id quite vile.

    I do not think he exists either, but the way Christians and Muslims adore a genocidal satanic god whose religions do a lot of damage to many, all moral people will vilify those satanic gods whenever they can.

    No?

    Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

    Please get back to me with your conclusion.

    Martin Niemöller
    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    With that out of the way. What did you think of the notion that morals are hard wired into our DNA?

    Regards
    DL

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Bishop View Post
    I will check it out for other decent views.

    I don't know dis not comment onn post 4 in terms of us having instincts.

    I either shot his view down or he did not believe the research that shows we have no need of a god to know good and evil.

    Care to comment on the baby research?

    I don't know, like most religious people, might be a moral coward who fears saying anything negative against the vile gods on our menu.

    Regards
    DL
    Interesting experiments with the puppets.

    I think that it's always hard to demonstrate the tabula rasa proposition, one way or the other. Even here, with babies 3 months or 5 months old, they've had up to a year of potential influence if you count time in the womb.

    Also how do you account for the potential difference in motivation between - A) the baby chooses the good doll because it's good, and B) the baby chooses the good doll because it's advantageus for him/her to have the good doll on his/her side?
    Last edited by Desmond; 22-03-2020 at 08:34 AM.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  14. #14
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    My name is I don't know because I don't know anything. I am too stupid to know anything.
    I don't know if morals are hard wired into our DNA
    I don't know anything about the babies

    It is all beyond me, I KNOW NOTHING.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by i don't know View Post
    my name is i don't know because i don't know anything. I am too stupid to know anything.
    I don't know if morals are hard wired into our dna
    i don't know anything about the babies

    it is all beyond me, i know nothing.
    lol

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